Author Topic: Alignment Of the patch box (Read 3736 times)

Mike Lyons · « **on:** May 01, 2018, 04:35:40 AM »

What's the rule for patchbox alignment? I've used my calipers on a dozen or so pictures to try to measure the placement but they are all different. I've placed it on the stock but I'm thinking advice would be best prior to gouging out wood.

Ky-Flinter · « **Reply #1 on:** May 01, 2018, 05:10:56 AM »

AV,

You nailed it, the rule for patchbox alignment is they are all different. If you are building a copy of a particular maker, or school you could base it on proportions from an original. If you aren't making a copy, then place it where it pleases your eye. Tape it in place, hang it on the wall, look at it tomorrow, etc., until it looks good to you.

The placement in the pictures looks pretty good to me.

-Ron

Mike Lyons · « **Reply #2 on:** May 01, 2018, 05:16:12 AM »

I'm not following an exact rifle. I don't have that skill or knowledge yet. I have a Dickert a Beck a Kimbler a Mike Brooks a Schreyer's and a J.P. Beck that I'm referencing over and over.

Stophel · « **Reply #3 on:** May 01, 2018, 06:16:42 AM »

Raise the tail end of the box just a bit, and lower the nose end just a bit.

smallpatch · « **Reply #4 on:** May 01, 2018, 07:48:53 AM »

You'll see them aligned evenly with bottom of stock, top of stock, and centered. Some just "there".
I think centered looks best. Just my opinion.
I also like to use the old golden mean for determining length.
But that's just me.
(Adding to the confusion)

Lucky R A · « **Reply #5 on:** May 01, 2018, 01:22:09 PM »

It looks like the commercial Dickert box you are using is a bit large for the proportions of your stock, plus a bit long the way you have it laid out. Don't expect commercial boxes to be correctly sized, lids are often too narrow compared to the originals they allegedly represent. As you get further along in your building career you should start making your own boxes if you want exact HC accuracy.
Ron

n stephenson · « **Reply #6 on:** May 01, 2018, 05:10:22 PM »

You might want to arch the lid and solder in an end piece , once you determine the length . If you install it flat , it won`t look like the original. Nate

rich pierce · « **Reply #7 on:** May 01, 2018, 05:59:09 PM »

Agree with Ron that box looks too big. At least slide it back.

Pete G. · « **Reply #8 on:** May 01, 2018, 06:15:56 PM »

You can narrow that box considerably by reducing the side plate width. Try making a template of manila folder material and see how they look at various widths. It won't take much to make a big difference.

Jim Kibler · « **Reply #9 on:** May 01, 2018, 06:32:22 PM »

One tendency I've noticed among the less expereinced is to position the nose of the box a little too high. Seems there eye tells them it flows or looks better this way. On many originals the nose is lower and to my eye looks better. Perhpas this is from seeing many originals?

Jim

rich pierce · « **Reply #10 on:** May 01, 2018, 06:42:12 PM »

Peter Berry comes to mind as a maker who aimed his patchboxes low, but he was not a Lancaster maker using daisy patchboxes.

Herein our library is a later Lancaster rifle with s somewhat narrow buttstock, where the layout is pleasing to me. http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=2184.0

Mike Lyons · « **Reply #11 on:** May 01, 2018, 08:30:30 PM »

Thank all of you for the replies. I'll slim the side plates and the neck of the daisy down a bit to get a better look. I see now where it looks chunky and ugly. Being new, my eye doesn't adjust to the nose being down but now that it has been pointed out, I see it in all the posted pictures and my references. You all saved me from regretting I didn't ask the question. The pieces have a curve to them that doesn't show well in my picture but I'll deal with that more in the coming days. Looks like my commercial patch box is more of a reference to start on.

flehto · « **Reply #12 on:** May 01, 2018, 08:57:10 PM »

Don't underestimate the complexity of making the Pbox more narrow....especially the "Daisy". The outline of the sideplates could be enhanced w/ a slightly more complicated design...look at some Lancaster originals......Fred

Mike Lyons · « **Reply #13 on:** May 02, 2018, 03:13:56 AM »

Something like this? I like the thinner neck on the daisy but I'm not sure about narrowing the sides now. I'll keep drawing on it and starring at it.

Pukka Bundook · « **Reply #14 on:** May 02, 2018, 03:52:35 AM »

All I can say, is align it so it Looks right.

This isn't meant to be funny, There is generally only one right and a whole lot of wrongs.
Just study examples that are very pleasing, then eyeball it.

Sorry if this sounds un-helpful, but nothing is written in stone, If it Looks great, it probably is.

Richard.

mountainman70 · « **Reply #15 on:** May 02, 2018, 04:08:00 AM »

Hello vet, good to see ya back on here. Looks l;ike you have a good start on your build. Have a goodun, Dave

Goo · « **Reply #16 on:** May 02, 2018, 05:07:42 AM »

Try positioning according to the golden mean before cutting anything ( 2€ )

Nordnecker · « **Reply #17 on:** May 02, 2018, 02:29:09 PM »

When I saw this thread yesterday morning, I thought it looked like you would have to slim down the whole box to make it look like the pic of the original. I agree with the scrolls you drew on the sides. If it were mine, I'd probably file down the daisy a bit, too. But your lid has 5 knuckles on the door. The original has only 3 on the door. The pic of original looks like the lid isn't parallel sided. Tough call.

n stephenson · « **Reply #18 on:** May 02, 2018, 04:08:16 PM »

Maybe my post was overlooked or just ignored ? You can position it any way you want , but it will NOT look like the original with the lid flat. Before I started thinning sideplates or anything , I would get the lid like it should be , THEN worry about the sideplates. When you arch the lid , it will take a little width out of it . JMHO Nate

smallpatch · « **Reply #19 on:** May 02, 2018, 05:46:26 PM »

Stand back and look at the overall architecture. Please scoot that thing toward the buttplate.
I like the scrolls, move them toward the finial.
You know, when this is done.....you only have to please you, right?

WadePatton · « **Reply #20 on:** May 02, 2018, 06:46:33 PM »

Quote from: rich pierce on May 01, 2018, 05:59:09 PM

Agree with Ron that box looks too big. At least slide it back.

I would too, on that stock. I think that, in your first pic, it is encroaching on the wrist.

I also think that they look best when orientation is balanced between the bottom of the buttstock and the centreline through the lock (or rear of lock). I don't care for them fully aligned with the bottom of the stock, or dead centered. Kinda hard to 'splain.

Unless you are copying a specific maker, put it like you think it looks best. Also a wider shot--up through the action and horizontally oriented gives a better perspective for us to judge your positioning. Carry on!

flehto · « **Reply #21 on:** May 03, 2018, 01:51:30 AM »

I use a tracing of the Pbox , lay it on the stock, locate the position and then mark some spots w/ an awl to locate the actual Pbox. Looks like the 2 pics aren't of the same gun.....but it does convey the method.....Fred

Mr. Bubbles · « **Reply #22 on:** May 03, 2018, 11:59:34 PM »

A general rule in hanging pictures is that your eye level should hit the picture about 1/3 down from the top. In making things, generally the bottom margin should be a little thicker than the top margin. With your gun, the bottom moulding forms the new bottom margin. Try moving it up a little bit in the aft portion so the top and bottom are even, and the slightly wider on the bottom and see how you like it then.

Agree the front finial is a bit on the large side too.

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Author Topic: Alignment Of the patch box (Read 3736 times)

n stephenson

n stephenson