Gouges for scrolls

[Scota4570]

As I over think my carving project I took an inventory of my gouges.  I have around ten good ones that make circles from 0.1 to about 1.5" diameter.  Every one is different from the others.  I looked at just buying a set of gouges and it is more money than I want to spend.

I am thinking of making a set out of clock spring.  The diameter of the curve would be 0.1, 0.2, 0.3, 0.5, 0.8, 1.3, 2.1, and 3.4".  ...the Fibonacci sequence.  The width would be 1/4 of the circle.  Since I don't know anything this seems to be reasonable idea to me, is it?

Are baroque scrolls really made with the Fibonacci sequence in the first place? 

Thanks,

Scot

[Ky-Flinter]

I'd never heard of the Fibonacci sequence before today.  On a gunstock, I would think the size of the scroll, and hence the size of the gouge needed, would be driven by the size of the area allotted to the scroll.  The way my luck runs, I would need a .4, .6 and 1.0 gouge.

Here is an interesting take on making your own scroll carving tools from hacksaw blades or clock spring..... http://www.scavm.com/gouges.htm

-Ron

[J. Talbert]

You lost me in all those numbers.

I'd just try drawing some sample patterns on some scrap and use the gouges you have to stab in the design to see what works and what doesn't.

I can say that for the carving I have posted currently the gouges I used most were probably no 2, 3, and 5 in widths of 2 to 5 mm.  I also used a 2mm no 7 gouge for the little curl inside the end of number of the volutes.

I have acquired most of my chisels and gouges individually as I have discovered a need.

Hope this helps.

Jeff

[Dave B]

The Fibonacci sequence is also called the Golden Mean. Some original smiths have used it in their design. Others not at all. It is found in nature on a regular basis, take for instance the shell of the Nautilus or the Fern frond curl.

[deepcreekdale]

I do it like Jeff does. Just draw the design that fits the school/style of your rifle. I then use gouges of whatever sweep required to stab them in. You don't need as many gouges as you think, if you stick to smaller widths, although it is fun to collect more as needed. Eventually you will have nice selection. As Jeff said, smaller widths are better, I have a few large gouges, such as a 7 sweep 18 mm or 5 sweep 20 mm that are of very limited use in carving as the odds of your drawing matching that gouge are minimal. I do like to have a few 7,8 and 9 sweeps in 2mm widths as they are great for making scroll ends and small features. Some people use very small, straight chisels to stab in all their carving, and that can work very well.  I believe John Bivens did some of his carving that way.

[Scota4570]

Thanks,

I want make my own set of stamping in gouges.  How do the "sweeps"  relate to an actual radius? 

[Stophel]

I pretty much do everything with a V Parting tool....   

I don't usually stab in anything other than the "comma marks" (which were obviously stabbed with a gouge), and some other odd or really small shapes that are hard to "engrave" with a Parting tool.  ... you'd think I'd be able to engrave metal since it's essentially the same thing...   

[PPatch]

I want make my own set of stamping in gouges.  How do the "sweeps"  relate to an actual radius? 

You can take a set of gouges/sweeps (2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7...) and create a volute by beginning with the largest needed and going to the next size down until your volute is to your satisfaction. They are designed to do that. However, to be able to create every volute, C or S scroll you'll ever encounter would mean having on hand every width and numbered gouge sold. A very expensive proposition, you could of course make your own complete set, if that floats your boat. 

In practice though having all the numbered sizes and widths on hand isn't at all necessary as you can readily "cheat" by choosing a numbered gouge close the curve needed and canting the gouges and simply following your penciled line by making shorter cuts as you manipulate the gouge. You then pick up the next gouge what kinda fits your curve and continue on.

dave

[Jim Kibler]

I think it's a mistake to try to use or make gouges which form a great deal of a volute.  You mentioned 1/4 of the circle.  To me this is way too much.  It's better to use flatter gouges and generally those that aren't too awful wide.  Flatter gouges can be adapted to many curves.  In use you can often advance significantly less than a full gouge width to work around a curve.

Hope this helps at least a little.

All the best,
Jim

[Scota4570]

I spent some time fussing with it.  I made some gouges of various radiuses.  I also curved the nose so I have to rock it side to side to make the circle.  The proof will be if I can do good work with them. 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/55yd82ktlycghf5/DSCN0240.JPG?dl=0

Really, I need to go back to where you all are and take some carving classes!  Soon I hope. 

Later that day, Jim called it, after playing with them a bit they do need to be much narrower.  . 

[J. Talbert]

In practical use I think you will find that narrower gouges will prove more useful for longrifles than the wider ones you have made. 

Jeff

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I have about 8 sweeps and gouges and I use them where they are appropriate when stabbing in a design.  But by far. most of my first work is with a 60 deg. parting tool by DemBart.  I follow the incised cut with a 3/32" wide lens shaped chisel, plunging in on my incised cut, and each successive plunge is only 1/2 the chisel from the last plunge.  You can follow a very tight curve this way.

[P.W.Berkuta]

 I made some gouges of various radiuses.  I also curved the nose so I have to rock it side to side to make the circle.  The proof will be if I can do good work with them. 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/55yd82ktlycghf5/DSCN0240.JPG?dl=0

Sure do look nice - not fond of the golf ball handles - too short for my liking .

[bobw]

What Taylor said less the 60 degree tool.  This is the first carving I ever did, completely cut in with the lense shaped tool like Taylor is talking about.  No gouges used.  Gary Brumfield taught me this in Bowling Green and I even had the honor to use the tool he made when he was in the gun shop at Williamsberg.  Gary took the pictures.  Second picture.....cut in and grounded, first...it is nearly done.

[Mauser06]

Anyone have pics of these lense shaped tools?  I think I know what you mean...but wanna make sure.

Way too cheap to buy countless gouges.   Looking to make some of my own tools and try them.

[Ky-Flinter]

A search on "lens shaped" turned up several discussions.  here's one.... http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=32238

-Ron

[bobw]

Best picture of mine I could get.  Hard to show it but like Taylor said lens shaped, this one is .090 or just about 3/32.  Think I used drill rod and didn’t bother to harden. Bob Warren

[Mauser06]

Thanx guys! 


Actually found some real good videos on making them.  Way "easier" than I expected....as in I don't really need anything special.


Makes sense those smaller ones can be rolled to follow the lines.