Testing Loads

[Daryl]

I should state right off the bat - the reason for this post is to show the importance of load testing even after having a load that fills the bore and grooves. As well, the difference
that can happen in changing only 1 of the components. Too- it shows the lack of longer range accuracy with a load that actually shot well at 25 yards, however shot miserably at 50, with the .36 rifle.

Here is a load test I made last Saturday. I was shooting my 14 bore rifle at 50 yards, using the same identical load, except for the patch thickness.
same rifle - .690" bore, .714" groove to groove - grooves .012" deep.
Same powder charge = 85gr. 2F GOEX, straight from my horn into the measure then into the bore.
Same pure (as pure as I have) lead .682" ball, weighing 480gr.
Same range of 50 yards, starting with a clean bore, including the fouling shot.

The group on the left was with a 14 ounce denim patch, twice washed - which I measured at .034" compressed with calipers. This is a tight load.

The group on the right was with a Canvas patch, twice washed .022" compressed with calipers -
this load is also snug and fills the grooves completely, however it's 'fouled' group of 4 shots is
2.44 times larger than the thicker, tighter combination fouled group of 4 shots. The canvas patch produced a 4 shot group of 1.667", while the Denim patch's 4-shot group was .682", which
is exactly ball size - centre to centre for the group.

The .022" patch and ball measurement is .022" + .022" + .682" = .726" which gives .012" compression total or .006" compression in the bottom of each groove.
The .034" patch and ball measurement is .034" + .034" + .682" = .750" which gives .036" compression total or .018" compression in the bottom of each groove. yes - this is tight, but no tighter than what most BR shooters and some chunk/plank shooters are loading.

Because I use wet patches, each shot loads with the same effort as the first one.

The bench & view from and including The Old Man's Blind:

 








The 50 yard targets are to the left of the 6-bull 25 yard targets where we were shooting Quinn's new .36 Seneca.

Also- the tight patch target has a few .350" holes in it from that little rifle. More testing needed for it yet it shot into a tiny single 3/4" hole
for 5 shots at 25 yards.  The 50 yard target's 4 .35 cal. balls spanned over 6".
Notice how the fouling shot went high both times & how the thinner patch grouped approximately 1 1/2" right of the tight patch, except for the fouling shot.
More shooting should be done to confirm the results, however I was shooting fairly well that day & trust the results.

[stubshaft]

It just goes to show that once you find the perfect combination everything falls into place.  I've had similar results in one of my fifties.  The problem was that the best groups were from cotton pocket drill that measured .018" twice washed and compressed with my mic. when I went back to the fabric store to buy some more, they had sold out.  The search continues...

[Daryl]

We had that same deal happen with a red/white/light blue,/dark blue mattress ticking.
It shot well for everyone, yet the store sold out and could not get any more.

[rollingb]

I buy my ticking material here,....... https://www.onlinefabricstore.net/natural-featherproof-ticking-fabric-.htm

I've never tried mattress ticking, as the thinner pillow ticking works for me.

They also sell "samples" if you're interested in checking them out. 

[Daryl]

RollingB - what thickness does the listed feather proof ticking measure with mic or calipers when hard compressed?
This .69 barrel of mine has always liked the thicker denim patching. Right from the get-go, the interior of the bore was
fairly rough - cross grooved from poor lapping prior to rifling. It is a GRRW bl.  Prior to obtaining a bunch of the 14 ounce,
I was using 12 ounce which I measure at .030" compressed hard with my calipers and .025" hard compressed in my
micrometer. I ran out of the 12 ounce and now the local stores do not bring in denim listed in ounce weights. Seems most
cloth nowadays seems to be coming from China. Dphar noted it is inferior to US made cloth, however, if this material works
for you, that is what is important.

 

[Don Steele]

It just goes to show that once you find the perfect combination everything falls into place.  I've had similar results in one of my fifties.  The problem was that the best groups were from cotton pocket drill that measured .018" twice washed and compressed with my mic. when I went back to the fabric store to buy some more, they had sold out.  The search continues...

I recently had the same experience trying to replace a "lite canvas" duck material that I have been purchasing from Wal-Mart for years.
The good news is that the store I was in had a supply of a light blue 10 oz. denim that matches up well measurement-wise with the material I had been using and is giving excellent results on the range. Additionally, it has been my experience that some Wal-Mart stores are much better supplied at any given time than the one I have been going to so perhaps casting a wider net might find the original material somewhere else.
As to the striped so-called "ticking" materials in the marketplace (Wal-Mart, Jo-anns, etc.)...it has been my experience that measurement-wise...they are all over the place. A better specialty fabric source might be found online, but I prefer to measure, check tightness, examine the fired patches. etc before making a purchase of more than a small piece for testing.
Daryl's technique of manually squeezing the caliper jaws seems to be a good way of generating reasonably reproducible results.
Like any tool...practicing at home with your caliper using fabric you have on hand will help you achieve reproducible results when you go shopping.
   

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

We have only one fabric store in the town, though some of the sewing shops also carry material.  When one of us goes into the fabric store with a set of Vernier's calipers in hand, they know exactly what we seek, and take us there immediately.  When I find a material that suits me, ie:  weave, thickness, suppleness, etc, I buy the whole bolt.  I've been stung too many times when my two meter piece runs out and they no longer carry the exact material.

[rollingb]

RollingB - what thickness does the listed feather proof ticking measure with mic or calipers when hard compressed?
This .69 barrel of mine has always liked the thicker denim patching. Right from the get-go, the interior of the bore was
fairly rough - cross grooved from poor lapping prior to rifling. It is a GRRW bl.  Prior to obtaining a bunch of the 14 ounce,
I was using 12 ounce which I measure at .030" compressed hard with my calipers and .025" hard compressed in my
micrometer. I ran out of the 12 ounce and now the local stores do not bring in denim listed in ounce weights. Seems most
cloth nowadays seems to be coming from China. Dphar noted it is inferior to US made cloth, however, if this material works
for you, that is what is important.

I've no idea what the feather proof ticking measures.

I only discovered their online fabric store last year and purchased a sample of their blue stripe pillow ticking,.... which measured .018"-.020" (using calipers), so I ordered 7 yards of the stuff.

On the same order I also bought 12 yards of their checked Gingham shirt material, and wound up kind'a disappointed in it 'cause it's thinner than what I was looking for (I should'a got a sample of that too before placing the order).

After reading your above post, I measured a couple of washed scrapes of 10 oz. canvas I have laying around (from a different company) and the scrapes measure .026" however I'm out of that material and just placed another 50 yd. order today.
If the new roll measures the same as the last roll, I can send you some of that if it'll do you any good. 

Just let me know.

[Daryl]

That would be great, rollingb.  Just a piece that will fit in a normal envelope would be great. That way it's easy & cheap to mail.

[rollingb]

That would be great, rollingb.  Just a piece that will fit in a normal envelope would be great. That way it's easy & cheap to mail.

Daryl,.... the new roll will get here next week, and I'll cut off a sample and send it to you.

After washing and it's the thickness you're looking for, lemme know and I'll send you however much you want.

You can PM me your address so I'll know where to send the sample.