beyond collapsing interest

[jim m]

the collapsing interest thread[a very interesting one] got me to thinking. I live close to a state conservation area that has a shooting range and class room. they encourage locals to put on small seminars on outdoor activities, ie shot gun, archery ect. I am thinking about putting together one on traditional muzzleloading. I have both cap and flint and would demonstrate the basics. have a list of web sites and magazines and then go to the range and let people shoot a real muzzleloader. might be a lot of fun or could be a total bust. any suggestions welcome

[Roger Fisher]

Holy Canolies or some such.   Sure get the word out and try it.  Let us know how it goes!

[Dan]

I'm thinking you need some reinforcements at the local level and they should arrive with MLs in hand.  "Demonstration" means hands on and fouling smudges on their cheeks.

[Daryl]

Excellent idea, Jim - well done!  Do it and elicit help from others in the area if possible. The more guns, the better.

[david50]

sounds like a great idea Jim,i have often wished we had a place like that around here,i would like to try the same thing.

[roundball]

the collapsing interest thread[a very interesting one] got me to thinking. I live close to a state conservation area that has a shooting range and class room. they encourage locals to put on small seminars on outdoor activities, ie shot gun, archery ect. I am thinking about putting together one on traditional muzzleloading. I have both cap and flint and would demonstrate the basics. have a list of web sites and magazines and then go to the range and let people shoot a real muzzleloader. might be a lot of fun or could be a total bust. any suggestions welcome

IMO, if you're "inviting" the general public to use firearms you should assume Murphy's Law will be behind every shadow and are opening yourself up for a number of possibilities...

If you don't get a Liability Insurance policy set up to cover you and everything you own, you should limit it to a classroom lecture and classroom show & tell with the MLs.
If you have them live fire on the range, you shouldn't do it without Liability Insurance.

Remember, if you open something up to the public, it is assumed "EVERYTHING IS SAFE" and you are 100% responsible.

[hanshi]

Roundball's caution notwithstanding, you have a great opportunity.  Very good idea.  Having myself put on many martial arts clinics over the decades, I agree there is always risk.  With good management the risk is very minimal.  Print up a (vetted) legal waiver and have everyone sign one with parents signing for any minors.  Have plenty of "coaches" to help coach and nag, nag, nag about safety.  It won't be an ordeal and you don't have to "lawyer up" or anything like that.  You should find it fun and fulfilling.

[roundball]

Just so we're clear, I wasn't trying to rain on anybody's parade...but I did mean my suggestion to be a serious one in this sue-happy day and age we live in.

Personally, I don't believe any contrived waiver statement would stand for much in a civil lawsuit by a group of parents who are suing because one of their kids was shot, or burned, or whatever..."we didn't understand the dangers, didn't really understand what we were signing", etc...remember, OJ was totally acquitted, but in spite of that was then burned at the stake in a civil lawsuit.

It was just my .02 cents

[T*O*F]

Jim,
Since you are thinking of offering your course at a state conservation facility, I would recommend that you become a state certified Hunter Education instructor.  Many states have started to offer advanced specialty courses as an adjunct to the basic course.  These include archery, muzzleloading, turkey hunting, and others.  Some states also award completion certificates to the students upon completing these courses.  State certified instructors gain a liability waver when conducting courses under their auspices and on their property.

[northmn]

Since I shoot lefthanded and build lefthanded guns my opportunities to do so are limited but I have wanted to do so at the local sportsmans club where they teach the firearms safety courses Mn now requires to get a hunting license.  If the club sponsors it you are insured.

DP

[40Haines]

Here we go - Ain't even started and we got the lawyers involved !

If the property is owned by a state conservation facility I am sure they have rules and provisions for such an endeavor.

Find out the scoop and go for it !

If you can shoot along with your seminar, fine, if not, so be it.

The main thing is to get the word out.

I am in Florida, so I don't know how I can help, BUT , count me in.

I would think others on here would also be willing to do what they can.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Get the word out !

[Daryl]

You know what OJ said to the judge after the trial?
Judge, can I have my glove back?

[Candle Snuffer]

Good luck JimM.  It's a worthwhile venture.  I don't know all the laws or liability someone may be opening themself up to, but it seems to me that if the "Instructors" are going one on one with an individual on the shooting line I don't know how that could be any safer.

Many times at Rendezvous we get the folks involved that come to watch the shooting matches and hawk throwing.  We've not had any incidents in the 30+ years of Fur Trade Days when getting those in the public involved that are watching the events and are showing a keen interest to maybe take a few throws with the hawk, or jump at the offer of, "would you like to take a shot?"

Afterall, the interest has to be sparked somewhere.  Yes, there will always be sue happy mongrals out in this world unfortunately.  We just have to seperate the idiots from those who truly have a desire to learn.  IMHO that is not to hard to do as those interested are the one's paying attention and asking questions.

Good luck!

[northmn]

When I was an officer in a shooting club I talked to an attorney about liability issues and was told point blank to get insurance for the club.  He stated that while there was no gurantees that the best case is insurance.  Its kind of like driving to work.  You have more risk driving to work and getting involved in a siuation than you likely would doing what is mentioned here.  Most sporting events are pretty safe and injuries minimal.  Settlements are usually based on insurance levels.  Also the insurance companies fight the claims with their own lawyers and usually reach an out of court settlement.  When I worked for the city, they were sued for a sprained ankle on a public dock.  the judge threw the case out of court because the plaintiffs were caught up in lies. We just cannot stop the world for fear of litigation.  To be covered, the minutes of the business meetings for the club need to have your activity included.

DP

[hanshi]

FWIW I was sued once.  The woman was a mental case as it turned out.  She actually sued me (my school) and another student.  When her lawyer discovered we had no insurance we were dropped from the suit.  Not so the poor student. 

For years afterward she fumed and threatened due to us not letting her return.  Every few months there would be phone calls laced with profanity, begging and threats of all kinds.  This even after we moved to another town.  This is certainly an atypical example of what can happen but still paints a good picture of unethical lawyers and an equally unethical legal system. 

I was left with two conclusions: 1.  Your chances of being sued are actually very slim  2.  No insurance makes you a much less tantalizing target for greedy, crooked lawyers and sewers.

[Candle Snuffer]

I agree completely, get insurance!  We've always had insurance at/for Fur Trade Days, and the local home grown club I belong to is insured as well.  It's just a good thing to have, period.

Also, I should have mentioned that in my above post that we are insured, 24/7 - 365 days a year...