Author Topic: .45 fast twist bullets  (Read 4072 times)

Bryce

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.45 fast twist bullets
« on: May 31, 2009, 04:49:00 AM »
Originally I had been looking at higher caliber bores with the typical slow twist for round balls. However, after sending out a couple emails i got a response which mentioned fast twist barrels. Specifically .45 cal with a twist of 1-18" (for conical bullets). What would be the recommendation with respect to bullets for this kind of barrel?

Thanks


Offline Dphariss

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Re: .45 fast twist bullets
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2009, 06:25:30 AM »
If you are hunting with the rifle you are better off, perhaps much better with a slow twist RB gun of larger bore. 54 to 62. Though most are well served with a 54 for most hunting. Game much larger than Mule Deer might be better shot with .62-.69 calibers. Though 54s have killed a lot of elk and buffalo both back in the day and in modern times.
The 18 twist will stabilize 45 caliber bullets to about 600 grains depending on shape, its a very popular twist for BPCRs shooting heavy bullets for long range target shooting. It was the twist generally used in the last  original longrange BPCRs. These are of very limited usefulness in a ML that is not used for bench rest shooting. A 45 caliber ML for bullets need not have a twist faster than 30-40" if its to be used as a hunting rifle.
However, using elongated bullets, even bullets in the relatively light 250 grain range for a 45 is extremely erosive to the vent or nipple. The cure is a platinum lined nipple which I think are about 80 dollars each now. There are no flintlock vents that will stand the abuse for very long.

Basically in a BP hunting rifle used to 120-140 yards the the RB will generally perform better than the conical if both bullets are of equal weight. Shoots flatter, lower pressure.
Modern "wisdom" tells us that the conical is superior to the RB for hunting. But in practice this is not the case. A 45 caliber round ball will be outperformed by a 45 caliber  bullet of 300 grains or so IF THE DESIGN IS GOOD and the alloy soft.
If we increase the RB weight to that of the conical the RBs effectiveness is greatly increased and it performs very well in relation to the bullet, usually better. The RB does not tend to move away from the powder as some conicals can. The conical hunting bullet of the past was the cloth patch picket and it was not a complete panacea needing more tools for loading than the RB.
A friend killed a deer at 120 yards with a 45 round ball last fall and got complete pass through on a broadside lung shot.

If you are planning a hunting rifle you should search Google Books for "The Sporting Rifle and Its Projectiles" By James Forsythe and download it. It will explain the details very well and may prevent your making a mistake.
Most of the modern hype about elongated bullets for hunting MLs is simply a way to sell the latest "new and improved" bullet or sabot etc.
Rifles using rbs over 54-58 caliber or bullets over 250 grains need to be carefully stocked to prevent undesirable recoil characteristics. Early American/Jeager or English buttstock design is best. Later styles like the Hawken tend to be abusive over 54-58 caliber.

Dan
He who dares not offend cannot be honest. Thomas Paine

Offline Pete Allan

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Re: .45 fast twist bullets
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2009, 06:07:00 PM »
Every thing Dan said
Over the years I have hunted with both bullet rifles and round ball rifles and as to taking game they are totally different. My English style bullet rifle was 43 cal with a 400 gr soft lead bullet using 85 gr of powder. Of the 5 deer I shot with that rifle I only found 1 because at the low speed of the bullet I don't think they expanded to deliver much shock. The 1 I managed to find ran about a 1/2 mile in a deep ravine and was still alive when I caught up with it.
I have also shot a lot of Deer with round ball rifles and have never lost one. I think the most one ever ran was about 20 feet.
I have quite a few bullet target rifles and to say the least they a lot of fun to shoot at long range -- say 5-600 yds. Only thing one must remember is that bullet rifles have a bullet path about like a mortar. The small English rifle seems to be able to stay on a gallon can at about 250 yds -- thats about as close as I want to get to a skunk ;D


Offline jerrywh

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Re: .45 fast twist bullets
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2009, 06:56:15 PM »
Most states do not allow conical bullets to be used in muzzleloading seasons.
Nobody is always correct, Not even me.

Bryce

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Re: .45 fast twist bullets
« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2009, 04:04:49 AM »
Thankyou all for your input (as a result, i think i will just stick to the round ball) In response to the last post, i wouldnt be using it during muzzleloading season but instead using it in place of a modern rifle during that season. I'm also gratefull for the input on the calibers which can be used as until now i only really had a rough idea.

Offline Don Getz

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Re: .45 fast twist bullets
« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2009, 03:08:26 PM »
Pete.....I sent you an E-mail about some parts...did you receive it?.................Don