Who made this lock?

[David Rase]

A friend of mine was showing me a Hawken rifle this weekend.  The only markings on the rifle were Roller 82 on the triggers.  I am trying to identify the lock maker for him.  The hammer is very tall and distinctive but did not ring a bell for me.  Does anybody know from the two pictures who might of made this lock?  Any information would be appreciated.  I did not take pictures of the Hawken but it was nicely built.
Thanks, David

[rich pierce]

It has a forged sear spring, so not a typical mass-produced contemporary lock.  We mostly see flat spring stock sear springs on latter day percussion locks.

[Ron Scott]

I think what you have is a Bob Roller made lock with a Gemmer style hammer. Bob made a couple for me in the 80s.

[David R. Pennington]

Picture not too clear but Bob usually signs his inside on plate.

[ScottH]

Perhaps from "The Hawken Shop" when Art Ressel had it??

[Bob Roller]

It is one of mine from the early 80's or late '70's.and it
looks like the Hawken shop plate and hammer.
I don't know what my name isn't in it unless someone used
one of my locks and transferred the mechanism to this plate.
Bob Roller

[Scota4570]

Is there a way to adjust the contrast and brightness?  I can see no detail at all, just black.

[Gunnermike]

Is there a way to adjust the contrast and brightness?  I can see no detail at all, just black.

You mean like this?


it was a tad dark.  Mike

[David Rase]

Thanks for the help everyone.  I will let the owner know what you guys came up with.
David

[Bob Roller]

Thanks for the help everyone.  I will let the owner know what you guys came up with.
David

I'm sure I made that lock and the missing name says the mechanism was,for whatever reason,transfered
to another plate.I have used a lot of those hammers but now I think they have been retooled and are a
little too small.

Bob Roller

[Mtn Meek]

David,

I think you've got your question answered about the lock.

Back a few years I posted some information on a Hawken Shop Hawken that was sold by Art Ressel in 1981.  This link has pictures and specs on the rifle if you or the owner is interested in comparing to the subject rifle.

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=32210.msg327943#msg327943

As a side note, Ozark Mountain Arms used a similar hammer on their Hawken rifle.  It's a little bit smaller than the Hawken Shop hammer.  The big difference is the lock plate and internals.  Ozark Mountain Arms started out using Ron Long's lock plate and internals, then switched over to L&R plate and internals.  Neither are like the one you've pictured.

[David Rase]

David,

I think you've got your question answered about the lock.

Back a few years I posted some information on a Hawken Shop Hawken that was sold by Art Ressel in 1981.  This link has pictures and specs on the rifle if you or the owner is interested in comparing to the subject rifle.

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=32210.msg327943#msg327943

As a side note, Ozark Mountain Arms used a similar hammer on their Hawken rifle.  It's a little bit smaller than the Hawken Shop hammer.  The big difference is the lock plate and internals.  Ozark Mountain Arms started out using Ron Long's lock plate and internals, then switched over to L&R plate and internals.  Neither are like the one you've pictured.

Thanks for the additional information Phil.  I will pass it on to the owner.  I will se if I can get a picture or two of the rifle to post.  It is a pretty good Hawken.
David

[Mtn Meek]

Here are some more photos of the Hawken Shop Hawken that Ressel had custom built and sold through his shop (top rifle) with an example of a Hawken built from one of Art Ressel's kits (bottom rifle).





Notice the variation in the snail of the breech plug.  The kit built snail is "as cast" while the custom built rifle has a snail that has been filed in the concave shape typical of late Hawken rifles.

Also the kit built rifle has a lock Art used later that some say may have been made in India.  Note the three screws showing behind the hammer.  The middle one forms a pin that the sear pivots on.  The top is sear spring screw and bottom screw is a bridle screw.  This may be an English design, but these are the only contemporary locks I've seen it on.

A little off topic but still related, below is a picture of the lock area of a rifle that sold at auction sometime back that was represented as an original, but had a number of suspicious features.  The most obvious is the hammer and lock.  I don't think it fooled the serious collectors because IIRC it sold for a low price relative to original Hawken rifles, but still high for a contemporary.

[Bob Roller]

That lock was made in India and Bill Large got one and we took it apart and found the tumbler
and sear were too narrow and very soft.The bridle was a nice Stanton style like the ones I have
made since 1987.I am planning on doing this again and copying a "3 pin"* Stanton like the one
Taylor Sapergia showed us from his pristine Lang sporting rifle.Right now I am trying to get my
right eye working. I had the cataract removed Tuesday and am not at all happy with the results'
The left eye was done about a month ago and it was fine,almost no recovery time.I have an
appointment this Wednesday with the doctor that did this and if it's not better she had better have
a good explanation and be able to fix it.

Bob Roller
*This will be the same mechanism I made for a German shop with the bridle on
3 posts and the sear on an axle .1094 going thru a .110 reamed hole.Precise and
very rigid.