Author Topic: Blown patches  (Read 2034 times)

Offline Phip

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Blown patches
« on: September 17, 2018, 04:54:53 AM »
I'm working on loads for a new .40 caliber.  It has a Rayl barrel.  It will not readily load a ball/patch combo that exceeds .400 diameter regardless of patch lube. Easiest loading is with Three Rivers lube from the Rifle Shoppe in Springfield, OR.  The gun shoots pretty accurately with .380 balls and a .020 patch pushed by 60 gr. of 3F powder.  Those patches are shredded.  I can back off to the same ball and powder load but use a .015 patch, but the patches have holes for each of the lands.  I've put about 200 balls thru the gun now and just can't find a ball/patch/powder combo that isn't holey, blown, or both.  Suggestions?

Offline rich pierce

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Re: Blown patches
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2018, 05:37:31 AM »
Find out if you’re cutting the patches when loading. Either unbreech it and load a ball and send it all the way through or load without powder and blow it out with CO2. If cut then either you need to crown it or lap the barrel or both, because it’s not blow-by that is shredding them.
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Offline OldMtnMan

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Re: Blown patches
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2018, 04:27:25 PM »
I'd be more comfortable with a .390 ball and .018 patch. Your load sounds too loose.

Offline smokinbuck

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Re: Blown patches
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2018, 04:44:37 PM »
I shoot several .40 caliber rifles and one has an Ed Rayl barrel. I recrowned the barrel and shoot .395 ball in a .020 teflon patch with 70 grains of FFFg Goex powder. Loads easy and shoots accurately, nickle size groups at 30 yards. Patches could be re used.
Mark
Mark

Offline Phip

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Re: Blown patches
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2018, 06:00:14 PM »
I've already tried tighter loads and had to hammer them in, literally, starting at the muzzle where I couldn't seat the ball even half its diameter by hand. 
I'm still relatively new to black powder shooting, maybe fired 500 patched balls, so maybe I'm missing something when I can't see how I could ever hunt or shoot comfortably with a load that tight.

Mr. Pierce's suggestion makes a lot of sense, so that seems like my next step.

Offline Fyrstyk

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Re: Blown patches
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2018, 08:07:00 PM »
I would try some JB bore paste on a tight patch.  Work this up and down the barrel for a 100 strokes or so.  It should smooth out any rough spots in your new barrel.  The alternative is to shoot, and shoot some more.  A patched ball will lap the barrel over time.  It might be you have a few chatter marks in the bore that need to be smoothed out.

Offline Roger B

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Re: Blown patches
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2018, 08:47:31 PM »
Likely one (or both) of two things:
1.  Crown is too sharp (cutting patches on the way in).
2.  Wire edges on the lands.

I would get a green Scotchbright pad, wind it around your ramrod, & work it up and down the bore until its starts to loosen, replace & repeat until you get up to around 100 strokes or so.  The Scotchbrite will not hurt the barrel, but will polish it up nicely.  Don Getz advocated this method. Shoot it and see what happens.

If that doesn't do it, take some 400 grit wet or dry and press it down on the muzzle with your thumb, while turning the barrel.  Turn the barrel equal numbers of turns clockwise and counter clockwise.  When you replace the sandpaper, repeat the process starting from another flat.  Do this until you smooth the bevel of the crown nicely & go shoot it. One thing I WOULD NOT do is go after the crown with a carburundum "rock" in a hand drill.  You would be amazed how much crown you can take off in a second with that technique.  You can easily wind up with a lopsided crown that way, but you will just polish it with your thumb.

Mr. Rayle makes fine barrels & yours will shoot with a little love & attention.  Back in the day, we didn't expect a cut rifled barrel to shoot well for around 100 shots or so because the lands were too sharp.  This was referred to as "shooting in" a barrel which also frequently required some crown polishing as well.  If all else fails, give Ed a call; he will stand behind his work.

I routinely shoot .395 balls with eighteen to twenty thousandths thick patching in my .40s with any charge of powder without problems.  As a matter of fact, I usually shoot a 5 thousandths under bore size ball with the same patch thickness for any caliber.
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Offline kudu

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Re: Blown patches
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2018, 10:14:05 PM »
follow rogers advice

 lap/sand the crown with your thumb and 600 grit paper. twist thumb turn barrel 1/4 turn repeat. twist thumb (evenly) turn barrel.

yes .395 ball .017 damp patch and a good smack of the short starter and push her home should be eaisly done with a wood Ram Rod.

Offline smallpatch

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Re: Blown patches
« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2018, 10:23:20 PM »
Every barrel,I've ever owned, I shot .005 under bore size and .020 patch.
They all load and shoot well.
What kind of lube and patch are you using?
« Last Edit: September 17, 2018, 10:24:30 PM by smallpatch »
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Offline mark esterly

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Re: Blown patches
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2018, 12:03:29 AM »
are you using pure lead or an alloy (i.e. scavaged range lead etc.)
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Offline hanshi

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Re: Blown patches
« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2018, 12:12:42 AM »
So far in my .40 loads it's a .390" ball and a .024" heavy canvas or .022 canvas duck patch; loads quite easily.  I have a .400" dbl mold I got from Daryl and one of the cavities does drop a full .400" ball.  Haven't had the opportunity to try it yet - moving and all that - but will before long.  Lube is TOW mink oil or Hoppes #9 BP Lube.
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Offline Phip

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Re: Blown patches
« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2018, 07:23:56 AM »
I'll look into that scotchbrite trick and rework the crown with the wet/dry sand paper.  I'll also try mink oil for lube.  Then I'll shoot a bunch when I can and report back.  Thanks for all the helpful suggestions.

Offline stubshaft

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Re: Blown patches
« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2018, 07:29:44 AM »
In my Bobby Hoyt rebore, best accuracy is with a .390" ball and .018 pocket drill patch.  I tried and couldn't load a .022 duck patch without distorting the ball.  The bore measures .398" exactly what I asked Bobby to cut it to.
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Re: Blown patches
« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2018, 01:08:45 PM »
once the bore/rifling/muzzle are sussed out, it's all about what the gun wants, and why we test out load components.  in my bobby hoyt reamed .36 to .40 rifle, w/.012 radius groove rifling, i use a .390" ball and .015" grease infused linen patching for easy thumb starting over 42 grains of swiss 3f, and excellent accuracy.  to each their own, life is good.  8)