Author Topic: English rifle photos for Tlallijr and Bob Roller (Read 3340 times)

smart dog · « **on:** October 21, 2018, 02:12:14 AM »

Hi.
These photos are for tlallijr and Bob Roller. I am building a late flint English rifle circa 1815-1820. The barrel is a 34" 54 cal by Charlie Burton straight taper from 1.0625" at the breech to 0.973" at the muzzle. The lock is a Davis late English flintlock, the butt plate is from a very old original and I will explain the other parts as I go. The English walnut stock is from Ron Scott. Honestly, I have not built many late flint rifles and I relied heavily on photos. I examined 2 English rifles but they were early percussion guns and I own a Belgian double shotgun modeled on English styles from the 1850s. I relied on my knowledge of British gun making and my extensive reference collection but I hope I got things right. I want to do honor to those great British makers and not dishonor them with a hack job. One innovation I made was the trigger guard, trigger, and pineapple finial. There are no good commercially made castings or products that are correct for my project. The trigger guard available are all too large and I suspect derived from those on double guns that require space for 2 triggers. So I bought one from TOW, cut off the front finial and about 20% of the bow, heat bent it to the correct shape, and then welded on a stud that was threaded to screw into the trigger plate. Then I bought a nice single shotgun trigger and plate from TOW and drilled and tapped a hole for the guard. Then I filed a step in the front of it which mates with a separate metal plate forming the front finial. I filed a pineapple shape in that finial and it is anchored to the stock with a flat headed, counter bored bolt that screws into the bottom of the standing breech for the barrel. The seam between the trigger plate and finial is hidden under the bow of the trigger guard. It worked out wonderfully and kept me from having to file a front finial and trigger plate with one boss for the tang screw and another higher one for the trigger pin from one piece of thick steel. Well, this is where I am at with this gun. I have 2 others on bench right now so I am busier than I ever imaged I would be. All of the steel hardware on this gun will be engraved in a manner appropriate for British gun during the early 1800s and the wrist will be checkered. I am enjoying the project because it forces me to a higher level of basic skills but I miss the artistry of earlier guns.
dave

Long Ears · « **Reply #1 on:** October 21, 2018, 04:11:53 AM »

My next build for myself. I hope I do half as good. Fantastic work and thanks for sharing. Bob

stubshaft · « **Reply #2 on:** October 21, 2018, 05:05:41 AM »

Spectacular workmanship.

Daryl · « **Reply #3 on:** October 21, 2018, 05:24:05 AM »

Nice Dave- I may be slightly prejudiced, however, in my most humble opinion, there is no better 'hunting' muzzleloading rifle design that beats an English gun.

Having boldly stated that, I would also have to add, that a German Jaeger is a very close second.

smylee grouch · « **Reply #4 on:** October 21, 2018, 07:10:38 AM »

Great looking build so far Dave. I am more than slightly prejudiced as the English style gun has always been my favorite for the type of hunting I do and where I hunt. I would like to say that your gun looks like mine but yours of course looks much better but mine will serve me ok and has performed flawlessly so far on 5 Bears and other assorted targets. I used the same lock you did and it really is fast and dependable so far. Love your rifle, wished I had one in 66 cal.

I am looking forward to seeing the end product.

Curtis · « **Reply #5 on:** October 21, 2018, 08:25:41 AM »

Respectable craftsmanship there, Dave! Awesome looking English rifle. I want to see more!

Curtis

hawkeye · « **Reply #6 on:** October 21, 2018, 09:53:03 AM »

Very nice gun, if you ever wonna sell it, let me know. I'm looking long time for one like that

alacran · « **Reply #7 on:** October 21, 2018, 03:51:25 PM »

Stunning walnut

Pukka Bundook · « **Reply #8 on:** October 21, 2018, 04:03:54 PM »

Dave,

Cracking work as usual.
You hit it with the nice Round bow of the trigger-guard!
Very neat work.

One thing, and not anything to do with your build;
That lock to me needs a longer scear or a new tumbler. I hate to see a cock 'leaning forward' on half cock!
To me, they should always line up with the steel. By this I mean if you drew a straight line through the centre of the cock,( top to bottom) at half cock, the line should be parallel to a line through centre of steel or frizzen.

Just my 2 cents Dave. :-)

n stephenson · « **Reply #9 on:** October 21, 2018, 04:32:21 PM »

Dave, beautiful work! I have never built one of these , but I always learn a lot from your posts. Thanks Nate

Bob Roller · « **Reply #10 on:** October 21, 2018, 04:41:17 PM »

Quote from: Pukka Bundook on October 21, 2018, 04:03:54 PM

Dave,

Cracking work as usual.
You hit it with the nice Round bow of the trigger-guard!
Very neat work.

One thing, and not anything to do with your build;
That lock to me needs a longer scear or a new tumbler. I hate to see a cock 'leaning forward' on half cock!
To me, they should always line up with the steel. By this I mean if you drew a straight line through the centre of the cock,( top to bottom) at half cock, the line should be parallel to a line through centre of steel or frizzen.

I am going to TRY to make one of these that's half this good.I have a one inch,50 caliber octagon
GM barrel that's 33" long with a flint style chambered breech inletted into black walnut.
The lock will be the externals of the L&R Durs Egg with the cock from their Dixie RPL
and a bench crafted mechanism like the ones I make for the small Manton.
I like the looks of the Davis lock but have never looked closely at the mechanism so
I'll withhold commenting on it.
For me this project will be done like the cat ate the grindstone,a little at a time because
of lock orders for paying customers that must have priority over personal projects.
Thanks for posting these pictures and I have learned a lot already from my brief study
of them.

Bob Roller

Just my 2 cents Dave. :-)

smart dog · « **Reply #11 on:** October 21, 2018, 04:44:07 PM »

Hi,
Thanks for looking and commenting. As always, good eye Richard! The reason for the position of the flintcock is there was no sear in the lock when I took the picture. I have to file down the trigger lever more before I can fully install the lock and all of its internal parts. Right now it is just the tumbler and bridle on the lock so the cock can swing to any position. I think the half cock position is about right as you describe but I will check it when I install the sear. The walnut is stunning. I've never worked with a piece with so much curl but it is a bit of a pain. It actually is more difficult to work than highly curled sugar maple. It seems on this walnut, the difference in wood density between the dark and light bands is greater than with most maple I've worked with the exception of a piece of highly figured red maple. There is no way that I could scrape a final finish on this gun because it would be so wash boarded. I have to use sandpaper blocked with wood to get a smooth finish.

Daryl, I agree completely about the qualities of these rifles. This will be a fine hunting gun as well as a good target shooter as long as the barrel performs as it should. I left the barrel at 34", which is long for most English rifles but my target shooting friends are drooling over the gun because it has some weight but it is also very well balanced. The stock fits into the shoulder just right and my eyes (and hopefully Tony's) line up on the barrel immediately. The trigger guard provides a slight pistol grip that is very comfortable and the vertical oval cross section of the wrist really feels good in the hand. With checkering it should be very nice. This rifle makes the Pedersoli Mortimer feel like you are holding up a hockey stick with a brick hanging from the muzzle end. My only issue with the style is that once I've built a couple, there is no real novelty or artistic inspiration to build any more because they are so plain. The engraving will be fun but for me, plain guns mostly require all the grunt work without ever getting to the really fun stuff.

dave

tlallijr · « **Reply #12 on:** October 21, 2018, 05:01:42 PM »

Dave , looking great so far ! Thanks for posting all those pictures. Tony

smart dog · « **Reply #13 on:** October 22, 2018, 01:46:24 AM »

Hi Tony
In basic design and principles, this is the gun your rifle is based on. Obviously, I made changes but the gun is my inspiration for yours:
http://www.flintlockcollection.net/john-manton-son-2/

dave

D. Taylor Sapergia · « **Reply #14 on:** October 22, 2018, 02:37:24 AM »

Really lovely work Dave. And the Manton is certainly great inspiration. Be sure to keep these pictures coming...love the ride-along.

smart dog · « **Reply #15 on:** October 22, 2018, 02:44:42 AM »

Hi Taylor, Daryl, and Richard,
You guys know these guns better than I do and look forward to your input.

dave

Pukka Bundook · « **Reply #16 on:** October 22, 2018, 08:11:33 AM »

Dave,

Had to laugh!
No guts in the lock make it OK looking as it does!

Justin Urbantas · « **Reply #17 on:** October 22, 2018, 08:21:57 AM »

Really nice looking, Dave. I would love to hear about how you built and attached the horn nosecap.

smart dog · « **Reply #18 on:** October 22, 2018, 03:23:25 PM »

Hi Justin,
The nose cap is ebony, not horn. I made it like any metal cap, with a hollow center for the stock to fill and then I just glued it in place using AcraGlas. One trick to ebony is to make sure any surface to be glued is freshly sanded because the wood does contain oil, so much so that you can burnish it to a polish that looks just like horn. That is how I will finish it. I'll coat it with some thinned finish to seal the wood and then just burnish the surface to a gloss with an antler tip. I copied the shape from my original English fowler which has a horn cap.

dave

Craig Wilcox · « **Reply #19 on:** October 22, 2018, 09:11:41 PM »

Really nice work, Dave. You are setting a great example of workmanship for those of us who are just starting in this hobby.

That piece of walnut is really special!

tlallijr · « **Reply #20 on:** October 22, 2018, 10:18:16 PM »

Quote from: smart dog on October 22, 2018, 01:46:24 AM

Hi Tony
In basic design and principles, this is the gun your rifle is based on. Obviously, I made changes but the gun is my inspiration for yours:
http://www.flintlockcollection.net/john-manton-son-2/

dave

That’s a beautiful example to use for inspiration !

smart dog · « **Reply #21 on:** October 25, 2018, 01:37:21 AM »

Hi,
I finished inletting a silver escutcheon for the lock bolt, and silver plates for the barrel keys. I just wanted to assure Tony that I know how to inlet stuff. Well this is where I am at and I have to work on another gun for a few days. I'll post more as I go.
dave

Bob Roller · « **Reply #22 on:** October 25, 2018, 03:10:59 PM »

This is one fine looking rifle and not even finished.I certainly do appreciate
these pictures and as Taylor says,"the ride along".

Bob Roller

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Author Topic: English rifle photos for Tlallijr and Bob Roller (Read 3340 times)

n stephenson