Front Lock Bolt Location on Lock

[silky]

Morning,

Is it okay for the front lock bolt to not sit dead center (vertically) in the front lock plate?  Attached is a pic of my plan, showing that the front bolt will thread into the upper portion of the front lock plate, rather than dead center and slightly more forward.  I've rotated the lock ever so slightly to give the bolt more lock to bite into.

The specs:
7/8" octagonal barrel
Early Ketland Lock
3/16" web
3/8" ramrod

Am I doing something wrong here?  This is my first build from a blank, so please provide any/all feedback. 

Thanks!

- Tom

[redheart]

Can't you drill your ramrod hole a little lower?

[Eric Kettenburg]

I'd just lower the bolt and cut into the rammer channel.  I can't stand seeing the bolt off-center on the nose of the plate - I think it's a real eyesore.  The rammers are tapered, so you don't need a full 3/8 clearance in there anyway, and you can always either notch the bolt or turn down a portion of the bolt to get a touch more clearance.  Then you can keep the rammer hole as high as possible to keep a slim forearm.

[Bob Roller]

Taper the ramrod.

Bob Roller

[Mark Elliott]

I have rarely gotten the front lock bolt centered in the plate.   To get the bolt centered vertically, in the plate you generally have to have a web that is really too thick.   Of course where it falls depends on how big the barrel and the lock are in relation to one another.    As long as I can get the bolt to pass through the full thickness of the plate (no bevel involved) then I am happy.   The frizzen spring is normally going to hide it anyway.

[silky]

Okay, great.  I will go ahead and just center it into the lock plate, driving through the ramrod channel a bit.  Sounds like the combo of slightly turning/notching the lock bolt and tapering the ramrod should make it all work; the non-chamfered edge on the early Ketland will give me a bit more surface area to work with along with the frizzen spring covering most of it (as Mark mentioned).

My concern was fattening the forearm by making that web thicker.

Thanks for the help, gents.

- Tom

[smylee grouch]

If it were me I would lean a little more toward the barrel channel instead of the ramrod channel and put a SLIGHT grove in the bottom of the barrel if you get that close.

[smylee grouch]

In my last post I was assuming that you are in the planing stage and don't have the lock inlet yet. If so it might be helpful for all to see where the tail of the lock sets in relation to the wrist. If you raised the front of the lock just a very small amount it might put the tail of the lock in a better spot on the wrist.

[Robby]

If its still too tight after tapering the RR and filing a notch in the bolt you can shave the bottom radius of the RR hole. Take a 5/16" rod long enough to bottom out in the hole with some left over to bend down for a handle to get a grip in it, peen the end over enough to file a sharp edge, which will hang out beyond the rod. Feed it down the hole and draw it back, pulling out nice little curls of wood. Hope this made sense.
Robby

[smallpatch]

I rarely have one centered, and most have the ramrod tapered, and the front bolt grooved.
I think a slim look is much more important than whether that lock bolt is centered on the lock plate.

[Mike Brooks]

looks like I generally do it different that many folks. depending on the lay out, If I have to notch the barrel for the bolt to pass that's fine with me. I'll also put it in the upper portion of the lock plate as well. What is really giving you trouble here is your lock is too big for your barrel.....or maybe more likely your barrel is too small for your lock. Rarely was this early of a lock used with such a small breech.

[flehto]

Some locks "fit in" better...like the Golden Age  and others like the Large Siler don't. I use a #6-32 front lock bolt  and usually file a groove into the bbl. Where the threaded hole lands in the lock nose, I don't really care...just so it's inside the lock plate chamfer and the frizzen spring covers it anyways.  Intruding into  the RR hole would be my last resort......Fred

[Karl Kunkel]

Agree, go to a 6-32 front lock bolt, and taper the ram rod.  If the bolt's not centered, as previously said, it will hide behind the frizzen spring.

[Eric Kettenburg]

You can try to hide it behind the frizzen spring but it's still visible.  A little off center - no big deal, within reason.  As demonstrated in the drawing, it's a sore thumb, no way to see it otherwise.  That's far too off center.  If you want your rifle to look like an old rifle, it needs to be relatively centered - a good majority of locks were purchased locks, and the holes in a casehardened lock plate would surely have been drilled first.  Most original rammers or even old replacement rammers taper down to the 5/16" max range, quite a few even smaller @ 1/4" at the inner iron tapered tip, so I don't see any issue with edging into a full 3/8" rammer hole.  With a really nice rifle - meaning a really appealing piece, good architecture - everything in the lock/breech/rammer area is a juggle, especially with some of the later Lehigh and Bucks pieces.  There are one heck of a lot of antiques that evidence lock bolts edging into both the rammer hole (lots of notched lock bolts) as well as notching the barrel.  Many lehighs with ramrod holes practically running right into the barrel channel at the breech.  There sure is going to be some juggling there.

[Ed Wenger]

I agree with Eric, it would be preferable to have it centered.  I’d quickly add that I’ve done them where they weren’t centered.

I think there’s a couple things that come into play, which Mike pointed out.  Layout is really important, and using big ol’ locks on small barrels raises some difficulties.

Another thing is, a lot of us use commercially made side plates that don’t always marry up well with the architecture of the build.  In an effort to make the side plate look “right”, many times you’ll need to dip, or elevate the front, causing the bolt to not be centered in the lock plate.  Making your own side plate helps greatly in getting things “right”.


           Ed

[rich pierce]

Brooks nailed it. Big lock, small barrel. Plus the desire to show a lot of side flat of the barrel makes the forward lock bolt placement and general placement and tilt of the lock tricky. Anymore when inletting barrels and drilling ramrod holes by hand, I measure the web and inlet the barrel further as needed.

[Bob Roller]

Does anyone make a 6x32 cross screw suitable for gunmaking
now?

Bob Roller

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

While you're still in the planning mode, notice that your tang screw does not drop at 90 deg. to the tangent of the tang's curve.  Correct that now before you do any drilling.

[silky]

looks like I generally do it different that many folks. depending on the lay out, If I have to notch the barrel for the bolt to pass that's fine with me. I'll also put it in the upper portion of the lock plate as well. What is really giving you trouble here is your lock is too big for your barrel.....or maybe more likely your barrel is too small for your lock. Rarely was this early of a lock used with such a small breech.

That was it. I re-drew this with the dimensions of a C-weight swamped barrel and, wouldn’t you know it... that front lock bolt lines up beautifully in the web, centered on the lock plate. Thanks, Mike.

And thanks everyone for your input and advice.

[silky]

While you're still in the planning mode, notice that your tang screw does not drop at 90 deg. to the tangent of the tang's curve.  Correct that now before you do any drilling.

Got it — thanks. That was just a rough idea of placement on my sketch, as the trigger assembly and barrel are in the mail. It will be correct on the final diagram. I appreciate the detailed look and critique!