Author Topic: Steam bending wood ?  (Read 2179 times)

Offline Bigmon

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Steam bending wood ?
« on: January 22, 2019, 10:43:19 PM »
I want to try and make a small oval wrist inlay for a rifle from a pc of elm I have from "Logan's Elm"  I have a pc about 1/8" thick to start with.  I see a guy bending 1" ash after soaking a cpl days then putting in microwave?
I assume I need to make a form to press it in about the same contour as the wrist.
Anyone have any tips or advise.  Other than don't even try it.
I will only use the inlay if it turns out nice.  I have a small amount of wood from this historic Elm and always thought it would be neat to inlay a small pc in all my builds.
Thanks in advance

Offline xx54

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Re: Steam bending wood ?
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2019, 10:53:45 PM »
I would try this . cut the inlay wood thick as you need it.  Put against  a round piece of  pipe with a rubber band around it and put in boiling water.it should rap around it.

Offline Daryl

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Re: Steam bending wood ?
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2019, 11:09:14 PM »
Some woods bend nicely with just heat, others need steam to do a good job.

This, I recall from bow making. I do not remember elm's desires, particularly.

I would experiment first.
Daryl

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Offline shifty

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Re: Steam bending wood ?
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2019, 11:11:16 PM »
  Don't put it in boiling water steam it ,can remember the time per thickness used to do this with wooden  bows, you can also put vegetable oil on it and use a heat gun.
   I think you steam 1-hr per inch of thickness.

Offline smylee grouch

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Re: Steam bending wood ?
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2019, 11:23:11 PM »
I don,t think I have ever seen a long rifle with a wooden wrist inlay. I would try the heat trick with the wood tied on to a 2" pipe with a hose clamp.

Offline Jeff Durnell

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Re: Steam bending wood ?
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2019, 11:36:48 PM »
That's a pretty tight radius, but I'd try it. Why not. I've bent a lot of wood for bows with steam, boiling, and with a heat gun... hundreds of times. I've never done it by soaking it and then microwaving it, but wouldn't rule that out. That would be my last option only because I'm not familiar with it.

A thin piece like that could be steamed over a pot of boiling water, or boiled right in the water, for just a few minutes and be ready to go. I do love my heat gun though, and use it for most of my bending, but when I have to make a tight radius, steaming or boiling raises the odds.

Success though will depend as much on other factors as it will which technique you use. Unless I had plenty, I'd hold back on my valuable piece and would make several test pieces of wood of similar species and grain structure, and try various directions of grain, methods, and forms until I found the combo that worked best.

Yes, Shifty is correct... 1 hr per inch of thickness is a good estimate.

Do a few dry runs so you know you'll be all set, and be ready when it comes out. When removed from the heat source, it cools quickly, especially a 1/8" piece, so don't play around. You'll have about 15 seconds. Elm is pretty tough, has interlocking grain, and takes heat bending fairly well, but I wouldn't bother shaping it much until the bend was made. Often, a piece can be heated and bent a few times if it doesn't go far enough the first time.

Oh yeah, and remember... heated and bent wood springs back a little when unclamped, so go about 4-5% farther than your target bend.

And leave it clamped until you're sure it's cooled throughout. Until cool and dry is even better... the next day, or two, won't hurt.


Offline Mr. Bubbles

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Re: Steam bending wood ?
« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2019, 11:50:57 PM »
the whole vertical thickness of the wrap-around is probably only 1/4".  Could you just do the inlay as a straight piece, and sand or plane away the corners that stick proud to the wrist?  Or, are you stuck with a 1/8" veneer?

I to have never seen a historical gun with a wooden thumb piece, but I'm sure it was done.  Just about everything else has.

Offline Jeff Durnell

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Re: Steam bending wood ?
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2019, 11:57:30 PM »
A marble colored piece of horn would look nice there too, and is already curved. That's probably been done too.

Offline Bigmon

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Re: Steam bending wood ?
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2019, 01:14:22 AM »
Thanks for all the advice.  I would not even attempt this if it were not for the historical pc of Logans Elm.  I am considering this for my Kibler kit which is about ready for carving.  I know it probably is not correct, but what the heck.  I like the historical pc of wood.
If it does not bend well enough I may just inlay it in the patch box lid.  Or between the trigger gd and butt plate.  There is a big flat area there.  It is just a stupid idea I have had about this wood from that era. I could just forget about it.
I think I am going to try and bend it the hard way, as I tried a pc once before the easy way and the wood split.
Thanks to all

Offline Jeff Durnell

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Re: Steam bending wood ?
« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2019, 02:59:27 AM »
It probably split because you were making the bend parallel to the grain. Instead, try making the bend perpendicular to the grain. It might break because the radius is too small or it wasn't hot/pliable enough, but it won't split with the grain.

Hmmm, reading your last post again, maybe that's what you meant by easy way vs. hard way. If so, yes, bend it the hard way.

If you get it hot enough and it still won't go, try a thinner piece. It doesn't have to be 1/8" thick for what you're doing. 1/16" would bend easier/farther and look the same when it's done.

Offline Flint62Smoothie

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Re: Steam bending wood ?
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2019, 05:05:59 AM »
Steam ... at the boatshop we’ll take oak in 1-1/4” wide strips, 30+ feet long, tapering from 5/16” to 1/16” full length and steam them for 3-4 days in the shop-length steam tank. Then we bend them around 3-5’ wooden forms to make wooden mast hoops for the old sailing ships. They wear like iron once dry.
All of my muzzleloaders will shoot into one ragged hole ALL DAY LONG ... it's just the 2nd or 3rd & other shots that tend to open up my groups ... !

Offline longcruise

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Re: Steam bending wood ?
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2019, 12:30:25 AM »
If your wood is air dried as opposed to kiln dried it will bend more readily and retain it's shape better.
Mike Lee

Offline shifty

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Re: Steam bending wood ?
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2019, 03:19:24 AM »
I want to try and make a small oval wrist inlay for a rifle from a pc of elm I have from "Logan's Elm"  I have a pc about 1/8" thick to start with.  I see a guy bending 1" ash after soaking a cpl days then putting in microwave?
I assume I need to make a form to press it in about the same contour as the wrist.
Anyone have any tips or advise.  Other than don't even try it.
I will only use the inlay if it turns out nice.  I have a small amount of wood from this historic Elm and always thought it would be neat to inlay a small pc in all my builds.
Thanks in advance

   Why not just cut the inlet then fit a chunk of your wood into it then just dress the excess wood away,just a thought.

Offline Bigmon

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Re: Steam bending wood ?
« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2019, 04:34:50 PM »
Howdy Shifty.
I would do that just as you say.  But I have a very limited supply of this historic wood and am trying to keep as much of it in a usable state as I can.
It is hard to say what other stupid ideas I may get for the wood and I want to have more than sawdust available.
The pc I have is about as big as a sniff can, but rectangular.  Plus I have the pc about 2" square by 1/8" thick, so I thought I'd try that.
Thanks for the input to all.

Offline WadePatton

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Re: Steam bending wood ?
« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2019, 05:47:43 PM »
Anyone who'd like to see some big wood bent, should see this fellow, he builds/restores wagons of early America:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMgTlht-PsNniRIuaax4m8Q

He bends a lot of wood.  I've also seen shipwrights bend some.  It's about the heat mostly.  I've seen Mr. Engels bend with torch only, using zero steam or water.  Mr. Engels has steamboxes and hydraulic presses for the big stuff.  The shipwright (Louis Sauzedde) uses plastic bags, made to fit the wood.

Fascinating how much wood can actually be bent, but of course it does vary by species and grain.  Grain runout can be critical.

Good luck with it.
Hold to the Wind

Offline Jim Kibler

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Re: Steam bending wood ?
« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2019, 06:14:36 PM »
I recently just started watching Mr. Engels and have become addicted.  A really neat youtube channel.

Offline M. E. Pering

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Re: Steam bending wood ?
« Reply #16 on: January 24, 2019, 06:26:01 PM »
If you are at all familiar with tools used by luthiers, you will have heard of a bending iron.  This is really nothing more than a tube of metal that gets quite hot.  Luthiers use these for bending wood, usually dry, though some wet the wood first.  The curves in the sides of a violin, for example, are formed this way.

Back when I did this sort of thing, I could not afford a commercially available bending iron, so I made my own.  I tore apart a toaster oven and took out one of the heating elements.  I got a piece of 1.5" iron pipe, and polished the outer surface smooth.  I inserted the element in the middle of the pipe with a couple of steel plugs I turned on the lathe to support the element.  I hooked up the element to a variac, though I suppose a light dimmer switch would work just as well, and I had my bending iron.  It worked quite well.

To bend the wood, I merely got it up to 3-400 degrees, not sure exact temp, and pressed the wood against it until it bent.  I have only bent wood that is less than 1/8" thick, so don't know how it would work with thicker pieces.  Do keep the wood moving though, as it is easy to scorch it if you leave it against the iron in one place for too long.  Practice on scrap.

Matt

Offline Top Jaw

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Re: Steam bending wood ?
« Reply #17 on: January 24, 2019, 06:32:50 PM »
Just my opinion here, but I think it would look too much like a wood patch over a defect if applied to the wrist.  I would probably place it on the bottom of the stock between the guard and the toe.  Maybe as a small diamond inlay, and perhaps drilled with a small hole as a place to keep a touch hole feather.  You also don’t have to bend it that way, it would be more tasteful, and you still have a piece of the Logan Elm on your gun.  Just my two cents worth.

Offline Richard

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Re: Steam bending wood ?
« Reply #18 on: January 24, 2019, 06:50:53 PM »
You're getting lots of good creative ideas. Another that Ill throw at you is using Marquetry inlay techniques. You could cut out the inlay shape in a specific design that has meaning to you, and even stain it different from the surrounding wood. Good luck with whatever way you go.

Richard

Offline Bigmon

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Re: Steam bending wood ?
« Reply #19 on: January 24, 2019, 08:08:51 PM »
I appreciate all the ideas and advice.  I like the idea of something between the toe plate and trigger gd.  There is a bif flat area there and it would be a lot easier.
If I went that way, I am trying to think of a shape that might be appropriate to the era, or especially Logan himself?  An arrow head, or hawk?  I don't want to get too goofy with it.
Just a cpl minutes ago I dropped the stock and near ruined everything.  I have it sanded to 320 and wet down.  When it dries I'll sand it and be ready to really mess it up with my carving.
This is a pc of cherry I cut from my own property near four years back.  It is far more figured than most I've seen.  Not curly, just grainy with a large area like quilting on the butt stock.
I don't want to mess it up.