1-90" twist in a .54 or .58 cal. rifle

[OldMtnMan]

60 yds is a perfect range for hunters.

[Daryl]

Absolutely, 60 yards would make it a lot easier, but that was the case for many of us. In some areas, 60 yards might even be a long shot, especially from a tree stand (ground up in the tree).
That is especially right even here during the rutting season. Moose can be called in to as close as a few feet - maybe 15 to 30yard being more normal if the wind is tricky.
Dphar has it even worse, with even more open country shots, thus ranges running much longer.

I've walked up deer in the bush - still hunting, following tracks, stopping, looking, couples steps, stopping, looking, etc. & if the tracks were reasonably fresh when starting out, come up with the
buck in a 45minutes to an hour - maybe 200-300yards of 'hunting' distance. Those shots are usually well inside 60yards.  Much shooting though is done though, in logging slashes, hunkered into
log piles on the landings, with anywhere from 80 to 150yard shots being the norm, especially on deer. Of course, around here the wolves have really skewed the hunting.

[OldMtnMan]

It's just a matter of self control Daryl. You set the distance at 60yds and pass up longer shots. I pass up on a ton of shots.

I'm not saying for anybody to copy me. It's my style and I love it. Sneaking up on game like a cat brings me the most smiles and I love the challenge. Even elk hunting I never call them in.

I've read many times that guys will say still hunting is easy. I figure they probably were walking along and got close to game by accident and think that was still hunting and it was easy. I say to them to still hunt all the time and see how you do. Some even think still hunting is sitting still in a blind. 

None of this is pointed at you Daryl.

[Daryl]

Which is why I noted still hunting for deer.

"I've walked up deer in the bush - still hunting, following tracks, stopping, looking, couples steps, stopping, looking, etc. & if the tracks were reasonably fresh when starting out, come up with the
buck in a 45minutes to an hour - maybe 200-300yards of 'hunting' distance. Those shots are usually well inside 60yards. "

It takes a lot of time & observation. I followed one little muley buck, about 2 miles altogether. The tracks were old when I picked them up from the landing in a slash, steady
 walking into the bush. When the tracks started looking fresh - maybe 4 beds later, I slowed down to normal still hunting - few steps, look, few steps look- all around. I caught
 a glimpse of him through the trees maybe an hour of barely moving along, bleated on my deer call and shot him at about 30 yards facing me, with a .54 cal. 450gr. FN bullet from
 a percussion Sharps. I muzzle loaded it for better accuracy. Worked a treat. The bullet exited out a ham.  Even at that, no meat was damaged, except some brisket/rib meat gone.

[scottmc]

Someone asked about hoyts rate of twist for gain rifling.  I was at his shop a couple weeks ago with a friend who is having a barrel pulled out to 54 from a 50.  He is getting gain twist.  Bob said it starts around 1-90 and ends around 1-48.  His claim is you dont need as much powder and it will shoot flatter at further distances.  Sometimes Bobby shoots a 60 caliber with gain twist and I have shot on the line with him and he consistently knocks down bears at 135-140 yards.  Pretty impressive for a big caliber.

[Daryl]

I am sure gain twists have certain benefits vs. constant rates of twist. ON the other hand, they
are not magical.

Large calibers are much easier to hit with at the longer ranges, than small ones, scottmmc, if loaded appropriately.

The larger the calibre not only is the effective accuracy range longer, but also the maximum range.
I am not sure why he would say a gain twist ending in 48" would shoot flatter than an even twist. Trajectory is simply a
by-product of velocity and ballistic coefficient, given a stabilized projectile, of course.
In that the gain twist can use less powder than a slower even twist, what are the limits of the experiment?
Does a .45 cal. with gain twist using 50gr. 3F for it's accuracy load, shoot flatter than a .45 with 60" twist using 75gr. 3F
 - I do not believe that for a second.

Is he saying a gain twist, with a GIVEN powder charge will shoot flatter than the same charge and ball in an even twist?  If that is
the statement, then the reason must be that the gain twist imparts a higher velocity per GIVEN charge, compared to an even twist
But, the even twist gun needs more powder, thus will have a higher velocity, which translates to a flatter trajectory.

I am curious to find out more.
 

[hanshi]

I have two .45s and one is a gain twist.  The gain twist barrel is maybe 3" shorter and slightly tighter than the other .45.   Both are very accurate with the gain twist being astonishingly so.  With 60 grains of 3F they both get about the same velocity with possibly a slight edge for the gain twist.  They both need another chronograph session as it's been many years since the last one.

[scottmc]

Daryl, my short answer is I'm not sure but I think you possibly you hit on it with the same charge in a gainntwist versus an even twist, gain giving higher velocities and respective flatter shooting.  I'm not a ballistics expert but only relating what he told me.  I'll be going back to his shop in a couple of weeks so I'll see if I can clarify it better.

[smylee grouch]

I,m probably wrong but the way I used to understand it was you started the ball with the slow twist so you could use a larger charge with out stripping the load then when it neared the muzzle it was gaining rotational spin to stabilize the ball. But to me a 1-90 to 1-48 is too fast, I was thinking 1-90 to 1-85 for a larger sized bore.

[Daryl]

Again. spot on the way I see it, Smylee. To my way of thinking, I'd not want a rate of twist slower than about 85" to 90" in a larger bore. The amount of power needed is a bit much.
 Dphar found that out with the first over 100" twist bl. he tried.
Seems to me, he went to an Ed Rayle barrel at 85" twist and in 16 bore, that one needs 140gr. Swiss to work properly.
He's got a good video of him shooting it.

Starting at perhaps 100" or even 110" then speeding up to 85" would be about right for a 20 through 12 bore, weight appropriate to the recoil. That would make a terrific hunting rifle, for the
prairies where you need a point blank range of about 130yards. To do that with a large bore, is quite wonderful.

[OldMtnMan]

That would be a good bison gun. Not sure what else would be on the prairie that needs a big bore to drop?