Slant or not to slant that is the question

[Wyoduster]

Ok gathering parts for a Hawken build... Why or why not? Slanted hooked breech or straight hooked breech why one or the other... I'm confused. 
 I have a 1" barrel and going to order a hooked breech and tang but too many decisions... 
 Pro and Cons Please...

[rich pierce]

Well. I always heard that the early J&S Hawken rifles used straight breeches and S Hawkens used slant breeches.  Turns out it’s not so. 

The supposed advantage of the slant breech I’ve heard is the barrel comes out easier.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

If I were you, which of course, I am not, I would pick an extant original rifle and use it for your inspiration.  What you should avoid, if I may be so bold, is to try to create something out of your head, based on the popouri of Hawken rifles from history, unless you have done a ton of research and are comfortable recreating your own parts, such as the work of Louis Parker.  There is so much variation in  the rifles from collections and displayed in museums and texts, that it would be easy to mix details and come up with a rifle that would be difficult to call a Hawken.

With a 1" barrel, I think I would steer toward a J & S Hawken rifle with either a patent or straight break off hooked breech plug and tang.  Also, think percussion.

[Wyoduster]

The question that is wondering me is why are both made? what does one do the other doesn't?

[Daryl]

The question that is wondering me is why are both made? what does one do the other doesn't?

What and why indeed?

[rich pierce]

Kind of like asking why, on current builds, some flint breech plug tangs are square at the end, some are shaped differently. Or why some patchboxes have hinges at the side and some have hinges across the stock. We make them that way because there were variations in originals.

[Roger B]

You will probably have to go with a slant breech.  It's nearly impossible to find a straight one anymore & it really doesnt matter stylistically.  From what I've seen, the Hawken shop built a particular style of plains rifle and the exact components varied depending on what was on hand, customer requests, what was available locally or by order, & what the Smith preferred.  The guns varied a lot, but maintained the same style and lines.
Roger B.

[alacran]

The Hawken Shop sells a straight breech it is called the Griffith Breech. Their Phone # 360 679 4657. Greg Roberts will set you straight.
They are on Pacific time so bear that in mind. Their website the hawkenshop.com.

[Bob Roller]

Years ago I saw a Hawken,a real one at Tom Dawson's home and it had
a one piece bolster breech. Guaranteed not to wiggle or wobble.
I used one on my own "Hawken"I built in 1967 and made several in Bill
Large's shop in years long gone.These breeches ARE authentic but not common.
Bob Roller

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Phone TOW.  Several years ago, before I knew about this site, I sold a whole box of straight break-off breeches and tangs to them.  They may have some left.

[Mtn Meek]

The question that is wondering me is why are both made? what does one do the other doesn't?

One can only speculate as to why the two types of hooked breech were developed.  But the blame can probably be placed at the feet of the British.

The high-end gun market in England was very competitive in the 18th and 19th century.  To compete, the most successful gun makers often came up with new innovations and refinements.  Some of these were practical improvements and some were essentially marketing hype.

I've heard that the slant hooked breech was preferred because it did not put pressure on the bottom of the barrel channel at the breech when the barrel was tipped up to unhook it and lift out like the straight hooked breech supposedly does.

I have a number of 1970's vintage Hawken rifles with straight hooked breech, and I see no adverse affects to the barrel channel, so I'm not sure there is a problem there that needed a fix.

Another advantage of the slant hooked breech is that it acts similar to a wedge and locks up tighter from the recoil of each shot.  This makes some sense and might mean that after the first shot, the barrel won't move anymore, giving more consistent accuracy.

As pointed out by rich pierce and D. Taylor Sapergia, if you are building a Hawken, the decision to use either straight hooked breech or a slant hooked breech should be driven by whether you are building an early J&S Hawken or a later S Hawken rifle.  The straight hooked breech is most common on a J&S Hawken (there are exceptions) while a slant hooked breech in more common on a S Hawken.

If you don't care whether you build an early or a late Hawken, then I would suggest you focus on making a representative late S Hawken because the correct parts are more readily available.  A convincing J&S Hawken requires some modification of available parts.

For a S Hawken with 1" barrel, I would suggest you use Track's breech plug PLUG-RL-16-3.  The breech & tang was designed by Ron Long.  It's a scaled down version of his "Bridger" Hawken breech & tang.



I also recommend Track's TG-HAWK-H-I trigger guard.  It has a more correct shaped rear scroll for a S Hawken rifle.

You could use either BP-HAWK-L-I butt plate or the "Bridger" butt plate, BP-HAWK-JB-I.  If you use the later, you should modify it as per Herb by squaring the inside corner and removing some metal on the inside of the crescent.  He has a post on here somewhere with pictures showing the changes to be made.  It's all simple file work.

Another option is to order a set of late Hawken trigger guard and butt plate from Doc Carlson of the Upper Missouri Trading Co.  I purchased a set from him at the CLA show three years ago, and they appear to have been cast from the same original Hawken that Art Ressel used for his kit castings.