Fowler Barrel Color

[Dave K]

I know that today many of the barrels are browned. But, were the barrels originally white and the brown just came about by time? How about on the flinter SxS's barrels. Usually I beleive the locks were white, but again, what about the rest of the steel on the gun? White, brown or even blued? I am talking of guns made in the 1760- 1810 period.

[Roger Fisher]

I do believe any or all of the above!!  Depending on what turned the makers crank at the time....  If I was half starved crawling about in the bush in hostile territory I would not want any shine on my riflegun.   If I were one of those conscripts standing inline on the open battlefield I would want my bess or charleville shiney as all get out in particular the bayonet to scare $#*! out of the other guys....! I'm darn sure also in my case at least if I would spot several hundred massed Lobster backs coming towards me w/those bayonets shining in the sun and my fellow convicts it would scare the cr    out of me!

IMHO only!

[Artificer]

Got a real kick out of what Roger wrote.

I've heard a bunch of explanations on why military guns of that period usually were left "bright," though I admit I never thought about the psychological advantage Roger mentioned.  Here's some other reasons.

1.  Parts left in the white didn't cost as much as parts that were browned or blued.  So it was a cost saving factor and the guns could be delivered sooner when needed because they didn't have to wait to finish large quantities of weapons.

2.  When an officer or NCO inspected the weapons in hands of his troops, any rust or discoloration on them would show the soldier wasn't taking proper care of it.

3.  A "bright" weapon looked more "soldierly" or professional and that goes to what Roger wrote as well.   

4.  CONSTANTLY working on the barrels and locks to keep them clean kept a soldier busy and out of mischief.  (I don't think this was a reason as much as it was a result of not finishing the parts.)  I've often wondered how many bricks were powdered to dust to keep those muskets clean. 

The funny thing is that by the time of the War Between the States, it has been documented that Southern troops often spotted Union Troop movements by the glare off their shiny barrels.

In both original Confederate Ordnance Manuals I've seen and the re-prints of them, it clearly states that weapons will be LEFT in the condition they came in.  I.E.  if they were blued or browned, the troops were NOT to polish the barrels and locks bright.  The Confederate Manual is dated 1863, so it seems they already had the knowledge of spotting the Union Troop movements from the bright barrels.

From re-enacting with both bright Brown Besses and Charlevilles, there is a lot of extra cleaning just to keep them from rusting on a daily basis even if you don't shoot the muskets that day. 

For what it is worth, I'd personally go with some kind of finish on the fowler.

Gus (the other and less knowledgeable than Roger) Fisher




 

[Stophel]

Almost universally left bright white.   THEY LIKED SHINY GUNS 200 YEARS AGO.  The brighter and more colorful, the better.

I suppose it could be rust or charcoal blued...

[Dave K]

Thanks, I have 2 guns I doing at the moment. One and English fowler and the other an early SxS flinter. Personally I like the white, but if it is wrong, I won't make it wrong. Actually if correct or appropriate, I am tempted to lightly blue it then knock it back with steel wool to give it sort of a muted bluish/gray color on all metal work. Both guns are like mentioned earlier a late 1700's gun. Doing it right or am I doing it wrong? Thanks for all replies.

[Artificer]

Dave,

Back in the early 80's on one of my trips to the Gun Shop at Colonial Williamsburg, they had a fowler on the wall where the barrel and lock had been rust blued.  They also had a rifle with a blued lock and browned barrel.  

At that time, I didn't know that rust bluing was used much, if at all in that period.  They explained rust bluing went back to the suits of Armour.  They had documentation bluing was done on the period guns of which you are interested, though it wasn't extremely common.

So either a bright or blued gun the way you describe is authentic.

[Mike Brooks]

1760- 1810 is a pretty wide time period.  Also depends on where the gun was made.The later end of that period in england you would see browned barrels. I just read a 1750's reference for english fowling guns intended for the Indian trade that were requested with blued barrels, and others with barrels in the white.

[Dave K]

Mike, you are right, that is a pretty wide time frame and I was attempting to address both guns. One guns is a English Fowler from around the 1760 to probably about 1780, much as you see in the TOW catalog. The other gun is a SxS which has Belgium barrels and they are marked with the oval with the ELG. These barrels breeches and the style of the gun, tells me that it was made around the 1780's. It does not have a Nock or Manton style of breech. Just vents at the rear most part of the barrel. This barrel is odd to me on how it is marked, as the "ELG" is on the left barrel on the side about 1 1/2" in front of the left vent. I am telling you this to help date the gun. Now this gun is/was brown by years of neglect and abuse and who knows, may have been made that way. I know someone will rant about the originality of the gun being cleaned off, but it is also necessary to preserve this gun and this is one of the things that needs to be done after several  repairs are made.  Some will understand that, some will not. It is amazing the markings that are now found under the scrunge.

[Mike Brooks]

1760-1780 single barrel fowler could be bright . blue or brown, pretty much a transitional period in English gun making.
 Don't be fooled with that Belgian barrel, it could be quite late with the lack of a patent breech. Cheaper guns didn't have patent breeches even in the 1820's. I'd date it by the locks or hardware....regardless, I'd brown it. I assume it has some sort of pattern?

[Dave K]

No pattern to the steel at all. Actually this is the 3rd gun from this period that I have owned. This and another one I used to have are almost twins, except for the barrel length. All the furniture on it is in the style of what I was told to be between 1780-1800. It was an inexpensive gun. Even though well used, it was a fairly solid gun. Locks are round faced, very much like a English gun or even the French gun that I have had of this time frame. Barrels are 38" long and 20ga. Front sight is about 4" behind the muzzle. The standing breech also has the rear sight, which is raised section that appears to have like wings on it and the center of it is 3/8" dished out section that you would sight through. These locks look very much like the gun I am working on as is much of the style. This gun is almost a twin to the one I am working on now, but the barrels are 33" on this one and the one I am working on has 38" barrels The locks on this gun are original to the gun, but were converted to perc. and now reconverted back to flint. As you can see, it was a modest gun, same as the one I am working on. You may have different ideas on the time period of this gun and I am anxious to hear what you think. The markings on both this gun and the one I am working on, are virtually identical. None of these guns had any pattern to the barrels and show no evidence that they are composite barrels, either twist or Damascus.

[Mike Brooks]

I must admit that Belgian doubles aren't my forte'. I'd date those guns 1800-1810, but I wouldn't bet the farm on that info!

[Dave K]

I consider myself somewhat blessed to find even these SxS flinters. They certainly though aren't as stylish as the English guns. For what it is worth, they fit me like a glove and though I haven't shot this 38" barreled 20ga. yet, the 33" barreled gun is awesome for me. The doves you see in the picture was the first time I took her hunting.

The wood on this gun appears to be almost like a beech, with lots of birdseye. Again, though very plain, the inletting has a very nice snug fit. I guess I keep finding these Belgium guns because no one really wants them.

[Mike Brooks]

Hey, if I found one for an affordable price I'd be proud to own it and use it!

[northwoodsdave]

I have a blued Jukar pistol that I have been working on.  After heating the barrel to solder on a underlug, I noticed the barrel began to rust a bit in the heat-treated area.  It very much resembles the blued, then rusted, barrel on an antique fowler I also have. 

So instead of cleaning off the (very minor) rusting, I'm watching it slowly antique my gun for me.   

Dave

[Feltwad]

Extract from the [Book Of Trades ] published 1780 .
The Gunmaker Section Barrel Forger
The last operation is that of colouring the barrel, previously to which it is polished with fine emery and oil,until it presents to the eye,throughout its whole length,a perfectly smooth and even surface.The practice of blueing,is now discontinued, and browning is adopted in its stead.To do this,the barrel is rubbed over with nitric,or sulphuric acid,diluted with water, and laid by until a coat of rust is formed upon it ,more or less according to the colour wanted;a little oil is then applied,and the surface being rubbed dry,it is polished by means of a hard-brush and beeswax.

Feltwad

[James Rogers]

Good post Feltwad.
For those interested, here is an online link to that whole book which contains many eye opening things for us.

http://books.google.com/books?id=Q3ECAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=subject:"Firearms"&lr=&as_brr=1

[Dave K]

Thanks for the new replies and some good reading!