Checking in...and update

[Pennsylvania Professor]

Hi everyone,

Thought I'd check in after my recent experimentation with my new rifle. Just to get you updated, I ordered a used T/C Hawken as a learning rifle; if I can get good enough I'm hoping to take it out in Oct. for early muzzleloader season. In short order, I also got in touch with TVM and placed an order for a good early Lancaster--where my heart truly lies. I ordered it with a swamped barrel, german silver furniture, 3 piece daisy patchbox, a couple of inlays (hunter's star and acorn), and the super premium wood option. Since I got the best wood they have, I decided not to gussy it up with much more than that.  Selling the Hawken later, or a couple of my centerfires, should make it checkbook friendly--overall, they are very reasonable for a custom piece with all the goodies and Toni is extraordinarily friendly as a customer service rep, esp. in this day and age.

Today I took the Hawken out to try it out. I talked to a lot of people who have used them and just about memorized the T/C's manual in preparation. I started with just 50 grains of powder (the smallest load charted in the back of the manual) and worked up to 80. The recoil in all cases was milder than I thought it would be. And the delay between the priming charge going off and full ignition was not as long as I thought it would be. Though I've got to say I was flinching all over the place out of excitement!

Had a couple of misfires, so the advice to get a CO2 discharger was spot on. Otherwise my day would have been ruined. The first was due to the frizzen getting a little dirty, or oily, or something--I wiped it down and then it sparked just fine. The second time, the amber French flint I put in there had just lost its edge. At that point I called it quits. Probably got less than 20 rounds off, but that took me about 2 hours. Now I think I've got the basic order of things down, though I'm still hoping to touch base with an instructor soon so I don't start making stupid mistakes that become part of my modus operandi.

Didn't have much of a pattern. I got on the paper about 2/3 of the time, but my main purpose of going today was to learn how to fire the thing. I found that basic rules of firearms handling plus some common sense worked wonders. I had half expected there to be some secret ritual involved but it was very straightforward: clean the bore, add the charge, add patch and ball, short start it, seat it on the charge, pick the touchole, prime the pan, shoulder the gun: fire! It fired a lot more like a modern rifle than I thought it would, with the added time between shots.

Incidentally I also found that those little flossing picks from CVS work well as touchole picks; they're soft enough not to scratch, yet they clean it out really well.

Thanks for all the advice; much of the advice you guys gave me so far has been spot on.

One question: how do you know when the frizzen is getting worn out?

Question 2: The TC manual recommends "laying a fuse" in the touch hole as a path for the ignitio to follow. Though the Blackpowder manual  some of you guys recommended says this slows down ignition. Who is right?

[Dale Halterman]

If you are developing a flinch, you should address it right away. I would suggest you make a practice "flint" of wood and practice dry firing at home. It will also help with accuracy.

If you can hold OK with the practice flint but still flinch at the range, get a friend to go to the range and prime the rifle for you. Tell him to only prime it about half the time, but not to let you see when. If you flinch on an unprimed rifle, it will show up very clearly.

Dale H

[northmn]

Good to hear you're having fun.  In answer to your questions.  Your Frizzen is worn out when it quits sparking with good flints.  You will be getting a lot of misfires.  It is also soft.  TC's used to be very bad about that. There is an individual by the name of Rich Pierce who sells very good flints at a reasonable price so I would suggest you contact him for replacements.  As to the "fusing" When I load I stick the pick in the touchhole before loading to prevent that. Fusing becomes evident when you pull the trigger, hear a sizzle and then the gun goes bang.  Really distracting and throws most of your shots off.  While Larry Pletcher has found that primer should be close to the touch hole, no way should it be packed in so that you get fusing.  There are two uses for a flintlock.  One is for range shooting be it informal recreational shooting or match shooting and the other is to carry for hunting.  The hunting set up is what separates the good ones from the mediocre.  A hunting setup should permit a full pan with no powder going into the touchhole to "fuse"  Also the frizzen pan fit should hold the primer in place and not let it leak out.  At the range you can prime the things anyway you want.  A couple of pointers.  Some wipe the frizzen after every shot.  Also you should not need to discharge a load for misfires unless you forgot to put in the powder.  Hope you are happy with the new gun as it sounds like a nice one.

DP

[Daryl]

I might add to what DP said about not having to pull (CO2 blower) the load with a missfire.  Just pick the vent, re-prime and fire.  If it still refuses to fire, pick the vent, tip the rifle over to one side and trickle some 4f into the vent, tapping the top of the barrel flat with your short starter knob (or whatever) to help it sift into the cone inside, then re-prime and fire.  The only time a CO2 or ball pulling screw is necessary, is if you have dry-balled (no powder) and all the tricklings don't blow it out. Pulling the load is the last step - you can usually get the gun to spit out the ball is you trickle enough powder into the vent or through a nipple, bolster or drum.

[Roger Fisher]

You say ritual   $#*! I got all kinds of those....

She gets stubborn!!!? Pull the barrel and breech plug, lay her in the spring muzzle down stream (or is it up stream) has to be at midnight with clear skies this will leave the bad spirits (vibes) run out.   Best visit the neighbor lady after this ritual not before!!

Works for me (sometimes)


Ok the devil made me do it!


Have to humor up this site sometimes!!

[Bill of the 45th]

Pa. Prof.  Since you said you had a used TC, you should be aware that they changed the shape of some of the lock components to improve reliability, and will upgrade it for free if you send the lock in if it's the old style.  Our resident TC expert is Roundball.  If you search the archives, there should be pictures and a write up as to the best way to get it fixed.  Search under TC locks.  If you can't find it try giving him a PM, and I'm sure he'll relay you the info.  With rocklocks, ignition is everything.  As to your question on a trail of powder into the touchhole, the answer is no because it causes a fusing effect which is slow ignition, and can lead to flinch.  You need to focus on the front sight, if you do so you won't even notice the flash, but it takes practice.  Also you probably only need half the powder in the pan you are using now.    It's the plasma flash in the pan that ignites the main charge.  Good luck, now get out there and practice.   Also another reason to talk to Roundball, is that he just got a rifle from Matt.

Bill

[SCLoyalist]

PennProf,  that sure sounds like it's going to be a crackerjack rifle from TVM.

One word of caution about those flossing picks - I tried them on my flinter once, and noticed a tendency for the tip to get soft and nearly melt if used too soon after a shot.

Sounds like you're well on your way to getting familiar with your rock-lock.  As has already been mentioned,  you can probably save the CO2 discharger for extreme situations like loading without powder, or moisture contaminating the powder charge where it won't ignite.  For a misfire, knapping the flint to put a fresh edge on it, or putting a new flint in the jaws is the usual way to go (and the current thread on knapping and EZLap contains a pretty good tutorial on knapping).

Good luck.  SCL

[Pennsylvania Professor]

Thanks guys, as usual I appreciate the feedback. It sure felt wasteful to blow all that good powder out the bore without firing. So, I'll try these other methods of getting the ignition to fire without resorting to the CO2 in the future. Some pressure flaking sounds like the way to go.

As for the flinching, part of it was the usual natural reaction to something loud and smoky going bang a few feet from my face. This was exaggerated by my excitement. I'll try the fake wooden flint route for a while and see if that helps--my goal next time at the range is to get some balls closer to the center.

As for the fusing, thanks for clarifying that. After what you all are saying, I can't believe that the TC manual  says to trickle a few grains of powder in the touchole in order to lay a fuse. I didn't get any "fuse fires" (with the delay); I either got good ignition or misfires.

Now to get in touch with Roundball and see about getting this frizzen fixed.

Thanks again,

Rob

[Daryl]

Every time I shoot, I have to make myself watch the ball hit the target - concentrating on not flinching. I"m getting better at it all the time.  I have a horrible flinch, brought on by many years of shooting (too) big boomers in the modern ctg. rifles. It's also the reason I have torn cartilage in my right shoulder joint, front and back, while the rotator cuff, which is the usual recipient of damage is just fine.
Watch the ball hit the target - of course the smoke obscurs the target, but make yourself watch the ball hit the target.  That way you get to see the sparks in peripheral vision.  If you don't, you've closed or squinted that right eye.

With a good lock, in good condition, the ignition seems almost as fast as a cap gun.

[Jerry V Lape]

PA Professor,  When I first started I had fits with misfires after the first couple shots.  Since I was in a very dry area (AZ) I used a wet patch to wipe between shots as the residue was very hard and I thought that best. Finally figured out that the patch only needed to be very lightly moistened to clean the bore enough to be able to load the following shot.  In a humid place like PA has been, especially  this year,  you may not need even that.  I was pushing wet gunk down into the touchhole area and that was causing most of the misfires.  I also had a pretty tight fitting jag on the ramrod which I loosened up a little so it went down easier and then bunched up the patch to drag more gunk out of the bore than it pushed down on the way in.  Everyone has different theories and procedures that work for them.  You will learn what works for you with your components and environment.  As I told you early on, there is a learning curve and it can be frustrating (I think it responsible for low recruitment to the sport).  The experienced properly qualified instructor can greatly shorten the process - safely!

[C. Cash]

Sounds like a great plan and glad your having fun with the T/C.  I sold my Renegade like a dummy and now regret it very much.  I got this from Tenn. Valley Manufacturing a coupld of years ago and put together by a local builder(B.J. Habermehl). Due to kids/wife's endless business trips, I have not got to shoot it much, but hope to change that here in the next couple of weeks.  My first shot was right on the bull...very satisfying!

[Pennsylvania Professor]

That's a mighty fine looking rifle. I sure hope mine comes out looking that good. Glad to hear that they're accurate out of the box. I got mine in 54 cal, and I'm hoping it will become my general purpose rifle. Since I can't afford more than one of these, it'll be my "do everything" piece.

As a further update, I found that my lock was indeed the old style T/C. That would explain why I was only getting 5 or 6 shots out of each flint, and perhaps why the frizzen was showing an inordinate amount of wear. I packaged it (just the lock) up and sent it back to T/C according to the directions on the website. Keeping my fingers crossed that it gets back with enough time for me to get some serious practice in before October. Here's hoping to no hassles.

[C. Cash]

Thank you Sir.  Yours should look a bit nicer with the Premium wood on there.  That and the swamped barrel on yours are good decisions I believe.  Mine is a 54 also and has the straight sided barrel.  Muzzle heavy but hangs nice for offhand.