Kibler Colonial at Track

[Scota4570]

https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/487/3/AAS-359

They refuse to give credit as a Kibler kit.  There is a long winded description that implies a different type of build. I even sent them an email pointing it out, they acknowledge the suggestion and still refuse to accurately describe the item.  Don't get me wrong, I do a lot of business with them but this seems a bit "sketchy" to me. 

Am I missing something?

[smart dog]

Hi,
This is the third Kibler kit they have listed without identifying it as such.  However, I am sure a lot of TOW kits and Chambers kits are sold there without being identified a such either.  I agree that it is sketchy at best and fraud at worst, particularly when one earlier listing said "unique handmade rifle".

dave

[rich pierce]

Their descriptions are often a mess. In this case “tidewater” but it has a Dickert-attributed patchbox.
On the other hand most of their shoppers (for guns) probably don’t care. Nicely finished rifle, great parts, etc. We are sticklers by most folks standards. An I guess we like it that way!

[Scota4570]

Well, sometimes I joust and windmills and get upset when someone else takes advantage.

Perhaps I should get in on the action?  From experience I know I can assemble and finish one of Jim's kits in two days.  That would be the Track $2000 rifle.  IF I spent a several more days carving and engraving they would ask $4000.

It seems wrong, but I guess I have an inflated sense of morality.   I could not take credit as  the builder unless they  stated clearly who did 90% of the work, and that is Jim Kibler, not me.  The buyer would get a top quality rifle.  And, as long as he understood what it actually was I guess that would be OK. 

I once looked into how they do "consignments" and it was not a traditional percentage deal.   More like they bought it from you and resold it, if I understood the process right.   I guess if it were a profitable venture guys on this board would use them to sell their stuff. 

I ramble...

[Dave A]

I'm pretty sure I have seen 2 rifles in the classified here that started as Kibler kits and weren't attributed. I know the CLA ads had a Kibler SMR at one point. I don't think it is just T.O.T.W.- and I expect their will be a lot more down the road.

[Jim Kibler]

Sometimes people mention that a rifle started from a kit, some don't.  To be honest, we really don't mind.  We're in the business of making a sale and making a customer happy.  It would be nice for a potential buyer to know, however.

Jim

[Bigmon]

It would not bother me at all if I ever bought a rifle in a similar situation and later found out it was a Kibler kit.  For my money they are as well designed and constructed as any custom rifle.  Of course that's if its well done and the style you want. But I have also seen a few expensive custom guns that had "issues" later discovered by the eventual owners.
But I agree, hey should say so.

[Eric Kettenburg]

I can kind of see it both ways.  About the only germane comment I might add would be this:  the rifles we are emulating (colonial American pieces by and large) were generally the product of multiple hands, setting aside the components themselves i.e lock, barrel, hardware etc.  In a large proportion of cases, it is more than likely that an apprentice took a stock blank and components to a "kit" form before the guy signing the barrel ever touched it!

[Bob McBride]

I’m with the ‘it doesn’t bother me” crowd with a small caveat. I like to know how much ‘love’ was put into a build by the builder, and by extension, how much skill they have executing a particular school,  and I do categorize my buys like that. I don’t see it as a fraud thing, but as a full information thing. I know it’s a bit of splitting hairs but it is a consideration in my buys, depending on what I’m after, but it isn’t a deal breaker, one way or the other.

Saying all that, I think, like someone said, it is a matter of scale, most builders don’t do their own barrel or ramrod channels, then there’s Chambers and Track, etc. kits, then Kibler, (it seems to me) so I don’t really know where the line is drawn where I need disclosure. It’s an interesting question, but in the end, and academic one.

[Dennis Glazener]

Totally up to the buyer but I do think the seller should disclose that so and so's kit was used. Not so much that the end product is any different BUT THAT HE DID NOT BUILD THE CORE OF THE RIFLE but prefers others to think he did. My thoughts only, others have their own thoughts.
Dennis

[WadePatton]

Their descriptions are often a mess...

Reading their descriptions wears me out.  Every now and then I go glance at the guns offered--seems that most interesting ones are always "sale pending" and has the price hidden--I find that irritating because it's part of the relevant information to my interest in any gun they have on the rack.  Would be lovely to see what folks are spending on such wonderFULLY described guns. 

[t.caster]

Wade, I have called Track a couple times and asked the price on "sale pending" guns and they were happy to tell me. But I agree, it is annoying.
In my experience, they mark it up 30% above my asking price, and I don't get paid until it is sold shipped and passes a ten day buyer approval period. They don't buy it from you in that sense. After a few weeks they will ask you to lower your reserve for a quicker sale.

[Cory Joe Stewart]

If you purchase a membership to their archives you can search every gun that has ever been posted on there and what it sold for.

Cory Joe Stewart

[WadePatton]

Thanks for the info guys.  I suppose I'll call next time I'm much interested, I don't think I'll ever be interested enough for the membership thing.