Author Topic: First Timer Decision (Read 2853 times)

DHouse · « **on:** January 23, 2020, 08:50:21 PM »

Good Day All,

My first post, just a brief intro, I've never shot a flintlock, I've built/shot my own small cannons, shot full scale Civil War cannons in reenactments and handled gunpowder and firearms many times. I'm also a CNC/Wood/Metal fabricator by trade and foreman of said trades. I therefore slowly familiarized myself with the Contemporary Longrifle Culture over the last few years and by gosh no one is gonna stop me from building this rifle. It dawns on me that my recent re-discovering of hunting has inspired this most recent fixation I have to get game with a flinter. I'm clearly not the first. I am primed to purchase a Chambers kit. Specifically the New England fowler.

My intention is to one day have both a turkey gun, and a deer gun. Now, I am wanting a fowler at first, so that I can hunt turkey first and foremost. Secondly, I'd enjoy harvesting a deer with it using a ball should I get lucky and have an opportunity within effective range. I'm far removed from the area of the country where I can easily attend the 18th century/longrifle shows to chat with anyone or hold a few pieces like I'd prefer. Anyway, my question is on bore size. I'd like to get a 10ga fowler as it seems lightweight and powerful. My concern is this. Is it enjoyable to shoot? I'm 6' 200lbs and only a grey hair or two, so I am not sure if I might really like it, or if it is a beast that will beat me up when I try to pattern it and I'll just resent the whole deal after all the time and money. I've picked the brain of all my hunting mentors and while great experienced hunters, they simply have had no exposure to flintlocks or any muzzleloaders for that matter.

I am planning to attend the Alafia River Rendesvous on Saturday and have my fingers crossed I might get to see me a flintlock or two.

Also, is it a common pipe dream to use the same rifle for both turkey and deer? Recommendations or anecdotes? Help me help myself!

Appreciate your time and any input.

Thanks,

-D

Bob McBride · « **Reply #1 on:** January 23, 2020, 09:01:33 PM »

I think your thinking is sound. A 10 gauge is a great gun for your purposes. When you buy your powder, may I say, real black powder, not pyrodex, etc. buy 2f and 1f. 1f has the largest granulation and pushes more than kicks in a big bore. Do lots of reading on the forum search on load development etc.

Welcome.

WadePatton · « **Reply #2 on:** January 23, 2020, 10:15:44 PM »

Bob is right, the coarsest powder is often used for best patterning AND for reduced felt recoil. 10 throws a mighty big ball and that big ball should give you a bit more reach with your effective deer-slaying distance. It's also going to eat up a pound of lead real fast if you don't have a big pile of it. (and powder)

I'm not yet a turkey hunter but, It's my understanding that a lot of guys do just fine on turkeys with the smaller bores (20 seems the most common with lots of 16's and 14's and 12's getting used as well), any of which will launch a roundball good for knocking a buck over at reasonable yardages. I've settled on 16 for my first smoothie--because more balls per pound and those are plenty big. I have a rifle already for deer, but hunt really tight woods for the most part where shots are almost always close, and often quick.

Welcome and enjoy your building.

hanshi · « **Reply #3 on:** January 23, 2020, 10:41:47 PM »

Welcome to ALR, DHouse. My smoothbore is a 20ga flintlock but also has a rear sight. The sighted barrel works with both ball and shot. Twenty is plenty. But many like a larger bore. I consider mine to be a "no-step" gun. That means when that .600" ball hits a deer, he don't take no step. Cheaper to feed than a larger bore but a bigger guns recoil shouldn't be an issue.

Daryl · « **Reply #4 on:** January 23, 2020, 10:47:34 PM »

Welcome to ALR, D.
Bore choice is not bad at 10 - but larger than needed. A 16 or 12 might be better choices I think, from a powder and shot standpoint.
A 10 will use more of both, especially when talking about round ball & of course, recoil goes up with bore size.
If quantity of lead and powder is not a consideration or is of little consequence, by all means, the 10 bore will or should provide better/longer range with both shot and ball.
Like Wade noted, 20's seem to be the most prolific/popular, however the 10 will certainly be the thumper. I would suggest a .735" ball for the 10 bore, along with a substantial
patch.
Our own bob-in-the-woods uses a 10 bore smoothbore for his big game hunting, moose, deer, bear.

Bob McBride · « **Reply #5 on:** January 23, 2020, 11:26:23 PM »

Also, I have no Bear or Moose where I live now, mores the pity, so a 12 bore is plenty for for me for deer at a distance (up to 70 yards) and Turkey. Most prefer a 20 as mentioned above, even if they have multiple smoothbores of larger size. It’s a pretty darn utilitarian bore size.

MuskratMike · « **Reply #6 on:** January 23, 2020, 11:27:14 PM »

Welcome Dhouse. The information already given is not only accurate but was given by people much wiser than me on smooth bores. Keep us posted with pictures as you start this adventure.

DHouse · « **Reply #7 on:** January 24, 2020, 04:40:22 AM »

Thank ya’ll for the warm welcome and for the great advice! Bob/Wade that makes a world of sense, the larger grains having more of push than a kick, I can see what you mean, the larger grain must ignite slower I’m guessing?

Thank ye hanshi, I’ve been considering a rear sight as well, and glad to hear again 20 is plenty, as I’m drawn to the larger bore as a preference for fun. Lol That’s good “no step”, I like that! Says a lot right there. Also am glad to hear the recoil shouldn’t be an issue if I go to the larger bore.

Daryl thanks for the reply, the added edge of a better/longer range sure appeals to the land I’m hunting, and the challenge of proficiency. It’d perhaps be a possibility to hunt moose in the future and how cool it’d be to have a period tool for the job.

Bob 70 yards is impressive, I didn’t know that was possible, that’s the 12ga smoothie?

I can’t tell ya’ll how helpful this has been, keep any responses/advice coming I’m here to learn all I can. A lot of great points to sleep on. 12, 10, 20ga…..

How about jug choking? Is that something to consider? It being non period correct dulls the shine a bit speaking for myself but was curious if you get by fine without it, and is it a pain to load a PRB in a choked tube? Or is it a great advantage?

Hungry Horse · « **Reply #8 on:** January 24, 2020, 07:19:24 PM »

Jug choking won’t affect the patched round ball, but it will affect the bare ball load. It just depends on if you want to shoot the traditional smoothbore load, or the twentieth century patched ball load.

Hungry Horse

Daryl · « **Reply #9 on:** January 24, 2020, 08:38:59 PM »

A jug choke will not appreciably diminish the patched round ball accuracy, or at least that was my findings in the one jug-choked gun I had.
Currently, I have a standard choked 20 bore that seems to not shoot as well as I think it should. Perhaps this is due to lack of 'good' load
work. time will tell. What this gun does really well, is shoot shot beautifully. The round ball accuracy will suffice for deer to about 50yards,
though.

Craig Wilcox · « **Reply #10 on:** January 25, 2020, 06:55:58 PM »

DHouse, in building your dream gun, you will find a tremendous amount of information on the build from the members here. Many, many good folks who are very experienced in all aspects of building.

Don't try for too much on your first build - I am speaking of carving and engraving. Those aspects will come along in time.

And never be afraid of asking for help - even the most mundane things will be promptly and intelligently answered.

Welcome to the clan!

bob in the woods · « **Reply #11 on:** January 25, 2020, 07:57:23 PM »

I recommend that you give Barbie a call at Chambers Flintlocks, and find out if she has a 12 or 10 bore New England fowling gun kit in stock. This gun is fabulous and authentic for the period. My 10 bore is the work horse for most of my hunting. Deer, moose, black bears, geese, ducks, and turkeys have been put to table thanks to this gun. Honestly, if I could have only one gun, this would be it.

DHouse · « **Reply #12 on:** January 26, 2020, 07:09:35 AM »

Wow such great advice and responses to come home to after a day at my first rendezvous. Got to see some Lancaster style rifles in person for the first time. The engraving and carving is much more small and fine than I imagined! It was inspiring and I think I will take your advice Craig and keep this first one simple.

Bob, have heard about your 10 bore, am very glad to hear how happy you are with it. I think that would be a fun one to shoot and build. I'll have to check their stock like you said. Is yours choked?

bob in the woods · « **Reply #13 on:** January 26, 2020, 04:44:21 PM »

My 10 bore isn't choked. It shoots round ball extremely well, and it is my belief that the accuracy holds up over a greater distance than my 20. My usual shot load is 100 gr FFg , 2 brown paper lubed wads [ kept on a knotted string...just pull them off when needed ] then set the measure at 120 and load #4 shot, followed by another brown paper wad. The 10 just seems to pattern well , even without a choke.

WadePatton · « **Reply #14 on:** January 26, 2020, 08:54:42 PM »

Barbie likes a 10 bore. See this thread: https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=57673.0

DHouse · « **Reply #15 on:** January 27, 2020, 08:48:26 PM »

Bob that is another burning hunch/question I had, am so glad you said that, it makes total sense that the heavier ball will remain in motion longer than a lighter one. This was a factor that encouraged me to lean towards the bigger bore. Thank you for outlining your shot load I am excited to give it a try when the time comes. I'm really interested in the brown paper wads. What type of lube do you use if you don't mind me asking?

Thanks for the link Wade, what a great result with the New England fowler. It's encouraging to see the 10-bore in action, and a mere 2 weeks ago to boot!

bob in the woods · « **Reply #16 on:** January 28, 2020, 12:38:59 AM »

Brown paper bags, cut into strips, approx 1 1/4 in x 2 1/2 in . Lube is bear oil with beeswax added to get a nice soft lube consistency . I thread these strips though one corner and they hang from my shot bag strap. Pull one off, fold it in half [ so it's square ] and there's your wad . 2 over powder, one over shot I got this from an article in Muzzleloader by Chris Gilgun , " Wing Shooting with a Flintlock Shotgun" I have found these wads to work about as well as lubed wool wads in the 10 bore. You need to pattern your gun to find out what it likes . That is how I determined that my gun preferred #4 shot

DHouse · « **Reply #17 on:** January 28, 2020, 08:10:03 PM »

Very cool idea. I did some searching online and saw there is another thread on another forum from 2010 I think it was, saying how they did use the brown paper for wadding back around 1767. I'm looking for bear grease/oil as we speak, stuff is hard to come by where I'm at but that's where the internet comes in! Thank you for the lube recipe, I'm learning so much valuable stuff since joining the forum and look forward to giving all of the above a try

MuskratMike · « **Reply #18 on:** January 28, 2020, 09:55:17 PM »

Neatsfoot oil mixed with beeswax works as well as a substitute. Just remember to use 100% pure Neatsfoot oil and as little wax as needed to form a paste. You should be able to find the oil at any good farm supply or equestrian supply. The "Muskrat" says welcome and happy shooting!

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Author Topic: First Timer Decision (Read 2853 times)