Lock assembly or tuning classes?

[pjmcdonald]

I know there are several class opportunities in gun building and overall assembly but does anyone offer a specific class on lock assembly and tuning? I’m gathering a basic idea of the skills I need to work on and tools I may need.

Skills I know I need to improve: precision measurement, precision filing, using a metal lathe and drill press, understanding lock geometry, heat treating metals, brazing

For tools, I’ve a pretty fair idea digging through past posts and tutorials. Right now I’m looking specifically for things to hold small parts (vices), files, and stones. Looks like Rio Grand and jewelers suppliers are best bet. Pricey stuff!

New lock offerings from Kibler, Laubach, and others using CNC, additive manufacturing, and other tech may reduce the need for these skills. Or make them irrelevant for most builders. Lock work is for my own (twisted?) enjoyment.

Thanks,
Paul

[Bob Roller]

I know there are several class opportunities in gun building and overall assembly but does anyone offer a specific class on lock assembly and tuning? I’m gathering a basic idea of the skills I need to work on and tools I may need.

Skills I know I need to improve: precision measurement, precision filing, using a metal lathe and drill press, understanding lock geometry, heat treating metals, brazing

For tools, I’ve a pretty fair idea digging through past posts and tutorials. Right now I’m looking specifically for things to hold small parts (vices), files, and stones. Looks like Rio Grand and jewelers suppliers are best bet. Pricey stuff!

New lock offerings from Kibler, Laubach, and others using CNC, additive manufacturing, and other tech may reduce the need for these skills. Or make them irrelevant for most builders. Lock work is for my own (twisted?) enjoyment.

Thanks,
Paul

To do this unusual type of metal work requires first of all,a desire to do it and without
that don't even try it.The gunlock from the most basic styles to the stunning and complex
types of old Europe require skills in machine tool use and can they be adapted for this work
and as you said,learning precision measurement and getting the highest possible quality in
micrometers and calipers AND established standards to make sure they are calibrated right.
The file is the lock makers friend and it's not possible to have too many and the widest
possible assortment in sizes and cuts.Some are really coarse and then there are some that are so
fine they can be used for polishing.A #8 cut Baiter will have 233 teeth or cutting edges per inch.
There is a myriad of shapes and lengths from really small to very large.
These skills will not be acquired overnight and again,as you said,a lot of pricy items are involved.
Spring making is a trade unto itself and again,a myriad of ideas as to how to go about making a
spring. I have my ways and I KNOW they work and I have no qualms about sending locks to
far away places.Making your own tools is a very satisfying thing and if they work that's even
better .
You might get a lock kit and see what it takes to make a useful lock from prefabricated parts
and see how it turns out.If it works that will be an encouragement to continue and build skills
that are required for the journey back in time.
Bob Roller

[rich pierce]

Jim Chambers is someone to ask about classes.

[pjmcdonald]

Bob,
Thank you for the sound advice. I think I have the desire - won’t really know until I try. And I definitely want to try. I will give it my best shot. I may build one and decide it isn’t worth the trouble. Will see about a lock kit and start from there.

I’ve always had a burning curiosity to figure out how mechanisms work. Locks are simply fascinating in their varied designs and geometry. Truly works of mechanical art.

Paul

[Clint]

If you have never built a lock and are considering a casting set, start with something big like a Land musket or French musket lock. Don't worry about what to do with the finished lock, it is part of the tuition. The big locks give you a little more latitude while still providing for precision assembly.

[tallbear]

Jim Chambers has offered classes in the past in Bowling Green KY at the NMLRA Classes in the spring.Well worth the trip!!!

Mitch

[smart dog]

Hi Paul,
There is a difference between lock making and lock tuning.  Tuning does not require all the machinery and machinist skills.  You need to know lock geometry, fitting existing parts, spring geometry, and heat treating.  None of those tasks requires much machinery, although a lathe is nice.  A programmable heat treating oven is a huge asset because it takes all the guess work out of heat treating springs and other parts.  Charcoal and crucibles for case hardening are also very useful.  Good files and polishing stones are required.  Certainly, locks are pretty precise devices but truth is the finest locks made by the British during the late flint period did not require CNC machining or hyper accurate measuring and precision.  They were not rocket engines or even fine watches but they were well made, nonetheless. The geometry required is not rocket science or voodoo and is easily understandable.  To make a lock from scratch is a different thing and requires more jigs, machinery, and forging capability.  Also, let's get a little real about lock precision.  A tumbler does not spin like a bearing.  It needs precision only for the arc of movement it actually makes.  How much does a sear actually move?  The engagement of the sear in the tumbler notches and the design of those notches is critical and the tumbler should fit in the lock plate and bridle with no slop but it does not need the precision of a fine watch. 

dave   

[Bob Roller]

A problem with a lot of locks offered in recent years is the LACK of precise fitting and
either a lack of knowledge about assembly of such a device or simply not caring at all.
I preferred reamed fits even if the part only makes a small arc of movement.
With CNC being brought on line in lock work there will be no excuse for botched work
and a big product improvement as well.
Bob Roller

[pjmcdonald]

Dave and Bob,

Thanks for the feedback. Tuning is more what I’m after at this stage. I’m a little past rank novice, maybe hopeful apprentice, but a long way from journeyman. I aspire towards mastery but acknowledge my limitations in time and talent.

As has been suggested, I’ll try my hand at a parts set and have been digging through the archives and tutorials here. I’ve a few books that touch on lock tuning, like Gunsmith of Grenville County. Until an opportunity to learn in person, I’ll keep plugging away.

Bob, many years ago I played with MG’s and Triumphs - talk about a lack of precise fitting! 🤣

Thanks again,

Paul

[rich pierce]

As you can see from posts here, lots of individual flintlocks have problems that can be hard to diagnose. If a lock is a commercial offering which generally works well, assembly/fitting or hardness of parts may be a problem. If a lock is a model known to have certain issues the diagnosis is simplified by experience. It’s likely this or that.

If presented with a lock of old model or unknown model, or an original, or assembled from castings taken off an original, then lots of experience is needed to diagnose why it may not function well. Sometimes it is matching the springs, but it could even require bending the cock or angle/curvature of the frizzen. Dave Person has done a lot of this kind of work and has probably seen most issues that arise. Whether these fall into “tuning” or “re-engineering” depends on ones point of view and the extent of work needed.

[Bob Roller]

As you can see from posts here, lots of individual flintlocks have problems that can be hard to diagnose. If a lock is a commercial offering which generally works well, assembly/fitting or hardness of parts may be a problem. If a lock is a model known to have certain issues the diagnosis is simplified by experience. It’s likely this or that.

If presented with a lock of old model or unknown model, or an original, or assembled from castings taken off an original, then lots of experience is needed to diagnose why it may not function well. Sometimes it is matching the springs, but it could even require bending the cock or angle/curvature of the frizzen. Dave Person has done a lot of this kind of work and has probably seen most issues that arise. Whether these fall into “tuning” or “re-engineering” depends on ones point of view and the extent of work needed.

My own line of thinking has always been to fabricate in house and to whatever extent possible
stay away from suppliers known to be less than beneficial. Lock kits hold no intrigue for me and
I don't know if I could ever make a useful lock from them.Cast mainsprings at one time were
very chancy to say the least.They may be better now and I hope they are.Folded sheet metal sear
springs,even though they obviously work have no appeal either,just another production,get it done
and out the door expedient.Quality control from foundries were worse than atrocious and they
did NOT care."We do production, NOT quality control" was the attitude.I remember well lock plates that
were hard as glass and shattered with equal ease and frizzens that were so hard no known drill bit
could begin to start a hole in them.
In addition to locks and triggers,I did a lot of automotive work and made certain parts in my own
shop.I made a lot of bronze replacement bearings for out of date automatic transmissions and
other very simple parts like shackle bolts and bushings for Packard,Lincoln and Duesenberg+
other odd items like a water pump for a Chandler.Individual bolts with odd threads on a one off
basis was interesting to say the least.A 13/32x34TPI for some sort of ancient motor cycle was a
job and a half.I think I made about 100 of these for a restoration shop from hexagon stainless
steel.A number of people called and said it was nearly impossible to find anyone that would make
a short run on anything and my answer was and IS,"I can't make less than ONE" .
I have considered reviving that idea but probably never will.The Country Gentlemen had a fine
bluegrass song titled,"I am weary,let me rest" and that suits me.
My apologies for a long ramble but it shows my current state of mind.
Bob Roller