Silver solder question

[sdilts]

Been looking at the Rio Grande website with the intention of ordering some silver solder. I didn't know there are so many different types - easy, extra easy, medium, hard. I have no idea what that means. Is there any difference in strength between the types? Is one type easier to use than the others? And what about flux. I could use some enlightenment so I don't order the wrong thing.

[Stophel]

I've always just gotten the silver solder from Brownell's... I have no idea how it would rate on that easy-hard scale!

[Clint]

The reason they list easy to hard is because of the melting points. A lot of jewelry making involves multiple soldered joints, so you can begin with hard (higher temp) and add other pieces with easier solder without un-soldering the previous joints. The higher temp solders approach brazing and are typically stronger. Fluxes are probably borax based and one little jar will last a long time you can often skate by using borax alone.

[Mauser06]

I've been using Solder-it-silver bearing solder paste....for all my gun building needs.  Sights and lugs on round barrels and nose caps.... Easy to use and seems to hold just fine. 

[Goo]

Try Google type in silver solder tutorial, you will need to spend some time reviewing  the results but you should end up with a comprehensive understanding  about the flow of easy , medium and hard in the context of silver solder.

[jerrywh]

The difference between all the different silver solders or hard solders as they are called is basically the melting point. Extra easy melts and flows at about 1150 to 1200° F.  Hard has a melting point of approx. 1500° and the others are in between. Any thing that melts lower than 1100°F  is not silver solder but is called that by some because it has a very small amount of silver in it. The different melting points are used mostly by jewelers and take a fair amount of expertise which most gun makers lack. I would suggest the extra easy for  most gun makers on this forum. The flux is usually Boric acid.
  There is a flux called batterns that works well.
PS Clint's post and mine were simultaneous.  Sorry

[Daryl]

Thanks for the explanation, Jerry.  On this site, I'd often seen guys use the words "silver solder" when they actually mean the low temp stuff that melts around or under 500degrees.
We, Taylor and I were taught to silver solder by our dad, many decades ago, using red heat, usually bright red, with the silver solder he had 'in stock', with key needs of a perfectly
clean surface and a 1 mil bond for full strength, that strength being upwards of 70,000 to 75,000psi sheer.
Due to the wordage used here, I started calling them low temp silver and high temp silver, or silver brazing. I would again like to refer to silver solder as silver soldering,
not adorned with the extra words.

[Craig Wilcox]

I used to get my silver solder in small sheets, about 1" x 2".  This was then cut into very small "chips", which, when needed, were laid on the asbestos pad most jewelers had.  Touch a chip with the flame from a torch, and it would ball up, and could be picked up with a stainless probe, transferred to the part which was heated.  Solder always flows TO  the heat.  Works with gold and silver, never tried any other metal then.  These little sheets were marked with the E, on up to the HH.
Now?  I just use silver solder paste, comes in a syringe which is marked with the melting point.  A little dab of the paste between the to-be-soldered joint, some heat, and you are done.  The paste has the flux mixed with it.
If you want to make your own flux, most drug stores have the Boric Acid powder available,  Mix it with some denatured alcohol, apply it to the joint, and lite the flux with your torch - the boric acid crystals will remain on the joint.  Pickle with some acetic acid when done to remove the flux.  Acetic acid is vinegar.

[sdilts]

Looks like I'll be ordering some extra easy. Thanks guys.

[WadePatton]

The two silver solders I have experience with are 50 and 56% silver (and that's how we referred to them-so I don't know why it's not more commonly known). They are hard and used for handmade bicycle frame joinery (and Stainless repairs).  I think the softer stuff has far less silver in it.  You don't need that level for non-structural elements. We used 50% for fillets (attachments) and 56 for wicking under the frame lugs.  There may be other alloy considerations I don't recall at this time.

As any solder--it's a real joy when the flux and metal and solder all hit the right temps and flow as desired.

Anything less evokes some spitting and colorful language--and sometimes just cleaning it all up and doing over.  Enjoy.

[smokepole45cal]

Wade's reply pretty much sums up my feelings. Brownell's High Force 44 solder is still frustrating to use even though its a "low temp" solder and for traditional muzzleloading it is still probably overkill. Ive had better success with regular solder on lugs and it helped relieve worries when I was reminded by others on here some time ago that the barrel supports the stock not other way around.

[Scota4570]

It may help to think of "hard solder" , "silver solder", and "silver braze",  as the high temp stuff, 1000* plus working temps.  They require MAPP gas or Oxy-acetylene.
https://www.amazon.com/Silver-Solder-Assortment-Easy-Medium/dp/B076KR6266
Keep in mid the different varieties have different flow characteristics.  For repair something that broke, the one that flows into the joint like water is better.  Other alloys are thicker and do not flow as much.  Don't let the working temp choose the alloy for you.  Do that based on the characteristics you want.  I just found the assortment link, I need to buy one to have on hand. 

Silver BEARING solder is the modern replacement for lead/tin solder used in plumbing.  IT operates at about 500*.  It is about 95% tin with a smidgen of silver.  It is not "silver solder".  It is not better than lead solder for our purposes.  I find it a little more difficult, actually. 
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Oatey-1-lb-Safe-Flo-Silver-Wire-Solder-290252/100084935

I use good old lead tin rosin core solder for ribs and thimbles. I use traditional lead solder because it has a long tack record of working and lasting.  I find it easiest to work with.  I also have it around for electronics restoration projects.  I use rosin for flux to prevent after rust on gun parts. 
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B075WB98FJ?tag=duckduckgo-vivaldi-20&linkCode=osi&th=1&psc=1
https://www.amazon.com/GC-10-4216-Liquid-Solder-Bottle/dp/B017W7OBS0/ref=sr_1_20?keywords=rosin+flux+liquid&qid=1583338713&s=hi&sr=1-20

[elkhorne]

Got several rolls of “solder” from my father-in-laws last year. I have several types of silver solder but am going to give the old stuff a try first. With all the discussion, I have an old barrel and a number of barrel chunks to practice on. I will try different solders on each with some very thin lugs I made last year. They are male from, I think 22 gauge, cold rolled sheet from Home Depot and they made into some nice little lugs. Remembering as another said, that the barrel holds the stock on, not vice versa, they should work well on thin barrels like the Rice Southern Comfort or Squirrel barrels that you do not want a large 1/16” lug base dovetailed in. I want to also experiment with some different fluxes. We used some TIX solder a couple of years ago in a class and it melted with a good soldering iron with its associated flux. That is another experiment to try. My idea for the thin barrels is to carefully measure the base, say 0.025” and carefully file a 0.025” depression in the barrel flat or possibly even dovetail it slightly and solder that in. By doing this, it should not interfere with the safety of the barrel. Hopefully my ideas have triggered others to think of other techniques to get these small lugs securely attached to the thinner barrels. Thanks for all the good dialogue.
elkhorne

[JCKelly]

Alloys, temps all fine
But STRENGTH
As Daryl implied, the actual strength of the joint depends upon it being very thin.

Yeah, strong solder/braze alloy is stronger than weak alloy, but the JOINT strength depends very much on how tight it is.

L-o-n-g mechanical metallurgy explanation which I forget.

But make your fit-up tight 

[rich pierce]

Agree 100% from my limited experience brazing that fit makes the joint. I needed to make a simple trigger blade taller for my current build. I made a dovetail joint to link the extension to the existing trigger blade. Got a good fit then peened it a little to really make it “cling together” while heating.

I’ve brazed using propane and a fire brick cubby hole. Takes some time but works fine. Mapp gas is faster for sure.

[Craig Wilcox]

I've a nice MAPP torch, a Propane torch, and for smaller jobs, a real sweet Butane torch,  They each have their use, but  bygum, I do wish I still had my Oxy/Acetylene torches!  I even had a mini-torch, for small jobs like making a wedding ring larger or smaller.  Used some of the larger torches for my aircraft welding,

For the ML, the MAPP torch is quite useful.

[Daryl]

Mapp gas nozzles work well on propane tanks as well for small sliver soldering jobs.
They provide much better/hotter flame than the pencil flame on standard propane tanks.

[Greg Pennell]

I have one of the little Bernz-o-matic Mapp/oxygen torches, and it is perfect for silver soldering, and plenty hot enough for small brazing jobs. I like using Rich’s firebrick trick as well..really helps concentrate the heat.

Greg

[Daryl]

We (Taylor and I) also use fire bricks.

[flehto]

Have some silver solder that's .005 thick and some that's 1/16 dia and although I rarely use both, they each do  serve a purpose when making  a Bucks County entry pipe. The  1/16 dia is used to fill in the radiused groove on the ID of the pipe so that a 1/2" long tab can be  made w/o breaking through the pipe.  I don't like long slots in the web. The .005 is used to attach the 2 pieces of the entry pipe. Don't have the slightest idea what this silver solder is, but it requires that the metal be red hot to melt.  Borax flux is used. This solder has the same color as the brass.....Fred

[John Shaw]

Another use for silver solder wire is making a front sight bead. With the wire held plumb in a vise and using a very small oxy/acetylene tip you can form a small bead about once in every ten tries.