What might I have...North Carolina rifle??

[scottmc]

Ok, let me first preface that this was my first antique gun that I bought here several years ago from Gibster.  It wasnt real expensive so it was my first chance to get one.  I now have two, the other being a nice Douglas.

I have toyed with taking g the barrel and having it rebored by Hoyt and scraping the rest.  However, the architecture and lines tell me this was built by somebody who knew how to build a rifle.  I'm guessing he took various parts after the war and built it.  Only a guess.  I showed it to Ian Pratt at Dixons two years ago a d he thought maybe North Carolina origin based on the parallel lines of the comb and bottom of the stock.  I also showed it to smart dog last year at Dixons while was consulting me on a current build.  He pointed out the Enfield characteristics such as the lock bolt escutcheon and mortise area the way they are shaped.

What do u all think who have lots of southern rifles?  An interesting note is the hunter with hat on the lock plate and I just today noticed the two dimples on the top flat behind the rear sight....name plate at one point?  Rear sight is two pieces.  Maybe utilized the current opening and wedged something in there?  Has to be east tennessee barrel with that tang.  Caliber is a little smaller than .36.  Smart dog thought the wood is ash.

[scottmc]

Oh, and I forgot to mention that I made the escutcheon since it was missing but did not remove any wood so I filed and tried until it fit.

[Kevin]

Scottmc,

Looks like the triggerguard is currently mounted with both pins and screws.  Sort of the belt and suspenders approach.  Any signs that there may have been a different guard on it at one time?  I ask as I  have an old relic of a rifle that is on at least its second guard.

Neat rifle as it is.

Thanks for sharing,
Kevin

[scottmc]

Good observation but there are only screws holding it, no pins.  I was wondering if they just loosened over time and the owner put screws in because the holes are pretty worn and enlarged.

[wildcatter]

Thanks for sharing the rifle. I personally would hate to see you scrap it, I like to see guns this way...used!  It looks like it had an old nail or iron staple holding the lock in place, neat feature. I think you are right with Tennessee or Western NC. I do think it may have had a different trigger guard but ..... then again, maybe what was handy was used to make it work. Is there something stamped on the barrel behind the dimple nearest the breech? I zoomed in on the photo, could be my eyes wanting to see something.

Matt

[Hungry Horse]

 The trigger looks like a set trigger that has been stripped to make a simple trigger. I have a set of triggers from a bunch of parts I got from a scrapped SMR. The rear trigger looks just like this one, oddly short, with a tight curl. I’m wondering if my parts set might not have been from a rifle by the same maker. Are the triggers held in the stock by a screw, or are they held in place by the triggerguard? Mine have no device that holds them in the stock, so I assume they were captured by the triggerguard. I suspect this gun had a different lock, and possibly a different triggerguard, when it was built. I WOULD NOT SCRAP IT. I also believe it may be signed under the barrel rust.

  Hungry Horse

[scottmc]

Matt, I wish I could say there is something but there isn't that I can differentiate.  There are some round figures of some sort toward the breach side of the dimple on the right.  U cant see it in this picture I can under my magnifying shop light.  I've been trying to will a signature on this barrel since I've had it🤣.

Hungry horse, the trigger you see is the set trigger. The front one is missing.  I have to push forward on the set trigger to drop the hammer.  I thought about trying to make a trigger to stick in the front slot just for looks.  The whole trigger assembly is held in my the gaurd as I've had it out.  If u have a picture of yours that you could send me, it would help in me making one.

The only picture of a tang that I've seen, using all the books I have from Byrd, Noble, pierce that matches this one exactly is in Byrd's "East Tennessee Hog Rifles" and was made by Abijah Fairchild.  The tang extension just barely goes up over the comb.

I hear what u are saying and I wont scrap the gun.  It deserves to preserved.  I'd just like to unravel it's story I'd possible.

[scottmc]

Matt, there's one other thing.  Gibster said he got this rifle from an  estate in Georgia if my memory serves me correctly but the family had ties to Tennessee.  However, the first barrel pin is 13 " in front of the trigger gaurd extension which I noticed in the another thread you mention being a S.C. trait.  Just thought I mention it.

[Hungry Horse]

Scottmc, the front trigger is absolutely straight, is the width of the trigger slot, with a slight peak filed, or hammered into the face of the trigger pad, and has a rounded gusset that reinforces the juncture of the back of the trigger pad, and the upper part of the trigger, they are single phase triggers.The adjustment screw between the triggers is a round headed pepper corn style screw. My triggers are complete, and appear to be well made, but whoever assembled them was no Bob Roller. They work, but are not very adjustable. This is obviously not a new problem because someone in the past sawed the majority of the adjustment screw off.
 These triggers were purchased from an acquaintance that brought them to my front door, and asked if I was interested in buying them. There was the triggers, a Golcher percussion lock w/bridle, half cock, and fly, and an absolutely beautiful iron Southern buttplate. They obviously had been through a house fire, but only got a good coating of smoke, no warpage, or heat damage of any kind, all the springs are strong and seem to have suffered no damage.
 I suspect these parts came from the same smith that built your gun.

  Hungry Horse

[scottmc]

Thanks for the description.  I'll see if I can't fabricate one.  There's always a first for everything😄

[JTR]

If you go through the pages here you can find a lot of pictures of guns with set triggers.
Here's a couple pictures of set triggers I have. The top one is by Bob Roller, the others are antique by makers unknown, and missing the adjustment screw.
The first pic is with them not set. The second pic is with them Set.
If you need something more, just lemme know.
Click the images twice for larger views!

The third set down looks to be almost exactly what you have!

 

[wildcatter]

Scott,

Show me a side facing picture of the lock face to the first barrel pin. I have one SC rifle with this style tennessee tang but haven't seen another like it so I never know if it has been re-purposed or what.

Matt

[scottmc]

Here you go, Matt.

[scottmc]

Matt, my bad.  It's not a hole for the barrel but for the tail pipe that is no longer on it.  Dont know what I was thinking.  I have the barrel out and it only has two staple lugs that are in use.  There was  one 7" out from the breach but was obviously missing before the unknown stocker put it back together.

[scottmc]

Hungry horse, here a couple close ups of the trigger.  Looks like maybe double set with the way the rear trigger is offset to the right??

[Tanselman]

Well, you have a pin hole waiting to mount a front trigger, and a spring waiting to tension a front trigger, so let's put one on there!  Shelby Gallien

[scottmc]

That's the plan.  Never made one before but I guess I can figure it out.

[wildcatter]

Scott,

No worries! I am having fun watching you pull it apart and show the details! Cudos to you for putting in the work to fix it up a little.

Matt

[Hungry Horse]

 Is the lock equipped with a fly to accommodate double set triggers? They will also work if the lock has no half cock notch. The old timers weren’t as nervous about such things as safety.

  Hungry Horse

[scottmc]

I didnt look close to see if there is a fly but there is no half cock notch.  Only down or full cock.