pattern for brownbess paper cartriges

[yip]

  looking for a pattern for brownbess paper cartriges, any help?

[rich pierce]

There’s some good info here https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=43377.0

[bob in the woods]

That old thread is good info. One change on my part, however.  I no longer lube the ball end of the cartridge with my bear oil/beeswax blend. No lube at all.  I found that it really didn't make a difference , so now consider it unnecessary.

[yip]

  thats a very good thread, but what i want is pattern of the paper, how long and how wide. what i'm making is blank loads for reenactment

[rich pierce]

[yip]

  thanks Rich' thats what i 'm looking for

[Clark Badgett]

Trapezoidal in shape. Lay out a straight line 5.5" long. On the left end of that line draw another going up at 90 degrees, this line is 6" long. On the right end draw a 3rd line at 90 degrees 2" long. Then draw the final line from the end of the 6" line to the end of the 2" line. Make you a former from a dowel that is .70 in diameter and about 7" long with one end hollowed out to fit the ball. Lay the former along the 5.5" edge, with the hollowed end about 1" from the 6" long end. Roll the wrapping paper, around the former, paper noted as being whitish brown (use the kind that is about as light as newpaper). When a tube is formed place a .69 or .70" ball in the end, insert your finger in against the ball and choke the end and tie the end with thread. Remove former and add powder. Once powder is loaded, simply twist the end shut.

Yes, this is a simplification of and 1776 description on how to make army cartridges. British style.

[Daryl]

This is the French method, no strings attached & would be proper for the French gun Mike is loading for and shooting.



This is the English ctg. These are copies of the original drawings.

[Clark Badgett]

Daryl, I think that second image is someone's wishful thinking on English cartridges. I have an image of a few British early 19th century cartridges and none of them choke the ball above and below. In fact that seems to not show up until the US adopted that method after the 1812 war. And I would be more than happy if you have information that points otherwise.

And the French method pasted the angled edge down as well as the end. The US used the French pattern at least through the 1812 war.

I say through the 1812 war as the earliest I can find any sort of documentation for the dual tied cartridges are listed as standard for the 1816-1940 muskets, and even then the buck and ball was the primary.  I guess you can see I love old ordnance stuff.

[Daryl]

I see Mike tied his above and below as well. Maybe he had data on that method?
I only had those re-prints of drawings.
I used ordinary white glue for pasting the upper paper down as well as the seam. It
did not interfere at all with the shooting.
My paper ctgs. were tapered, like Dan's, however the very bottom of mine were also
pinched and glued.
Due to the taper, tearing off the bottom wasted no powder, and the taper held the ctg.
in the muzzle while getting the rod out, just as Dan noted. Choked up rod would allow
seating the ctg. with ball into the muzzle, then down it went.
Identical accuracy to patches balls and same point of impact as well.  10 shots without
having to wipe. No lube anywhere.
these were made for the Bess I had for a short time.

[Clark Badgett]

Daryl, here is a picture of the French style examples I have access to. The top cartridge is a Revolutionary War example, even made of recycled paper. It is probably charged with the large French charge of that era. The second is of 1812 vintage. The third is a later French type and a blank made of blue paper. The 2 French examples use a rectangle paper pattern, while the American types used the English style trapezoid.

[Daryl]

Tks Clark.

[Clark Badgett]

Daryl, it seems there is an original Colonial cartridge on display at Valley Forge that has the ball tied fore and aft. So maybe the English system employed that after all, at least some of the time anyway.

[Daryl]

Hard to say Clark - different armories in those days might have played it by ear, before hard and fast rules laid down.
It was that way with the American muskets, but then, likely not so much with the English.

[Panzerschwein]

The French cartridges look a little easier and faster to make. Which parts were pasted down again?

[Daryl]

If the paper isn't stiff enough to "Hold", I would paste over the ball and the tab as well, where it is pinched at the base of the powder charge.
Much depends if these "ctgs" are carried in the waste 'box' or loose in a pocket.
I think they were pasted together over the ball, but not the tail, but according to the pictures, were not pasted at at all.

[Clark Badgett]

The French cartridges look a little easier and faster to make. Which parts were pasted down again?

The angled edge and the ball end.

[Panzerschwein]

The French cartridges look a little easier and faster to make. Which parts were pasted down again?

The angled edge and the ball end.

Thank you.