James Robertson J. Dickert project

[LuVerne Schumann]

I'm currently deployed until November and am using this time to plan my next build.

I live in Middle Tennessee and want to build a rifle which approximates the 5 matching "Deckard" rifles purchased by the five original Longhunters who established what later became Nashville and Clarksville. I've not found a surviving example though if you read the history of their trip, it's not hard to figure out why.

As this is my second build, I lack the confidence, skills and knowledge to build from a plank, so want to modify a kit that already has the basic bones.

I would like a swamped barrel of a light profile in 50 or 54 caliber. The buttplate of most early Lancaster rifles doesn't match that of the Dickerts I've seen, though Jim Chambers York County rifle looks close from pictures and appears to be a smoking hot deal based on what you get. Pecatonica has a kit that looks close, and TOTW offers a dual purpose kit that can also be built as a Haines rifle.

I guess what I'm looking for is general ideas here. I'd like to have the parts in time so that when I get home I can build it, and shoot it before I redeploy in Feb 2021.

[Mike Brooks]

Doesn't chambers sell a dickert?

[Dennis Glazener]

I used a Dunlap "Transition Isaac Haines Rifle" kit as a basis for an early Dickert shown in Vol I of RCA Book. Can't remember the number but will try to look it up later.
Dennis

[Frank]

Doesn't chambers sell a dickert?

I think a Chambers early Lancaster can be made into a nice Dickert rifle.

[LuVerne Schumann]

Chambers Isaac Haines rifle has the right profile from the pic. I'm not an expert,  but both Haines and Dickert had a distinct curve to the buttplate while most early Lancaster kits I've seen have a flat one.

I can't tell from the pictures I've seen, but I get the impression that Dickert rifle butt is thinner in profile than most early Lancaster kits.

I've sourced a Dickert patch box and side plate.

The three Dickert rifles I have barrel lengths on were sub 40 inch. I'm wondering if 38-39 inch barrels were typical for his guns.

[B.Habermehl]

You need to watch, a lot of original guns were shortened from the breech end due to corosion. A 42 inch or longer barrel originally would not be out of line. One early Dickert rifle I handled was shorter in the 40 inch range. It showed evidence if having been shortened in period of use. BJH

[john bohan]

   Try Knob Mtn. muzzle loading. He inlets your barrel and shapes the but stock. His brass castings are high quality too.     

[LuVerne Schumann]

You need to watch, a lot of original guns were shortened from the breech end due to corosion. A 42 inch or longer barrel originally would not be out of line. One early Dickert rifle I handled was shorter in the 40 inch range. It showed evidence if having been shortened in period of use. BJH

That's a great point

   Try Knob Mtn. muzzle loading. He inlets your barrel and shapes the but stock. His brass castings are high quality too.     

I will do that

[Jim Chambers]

With a little extra hand work you could fit one of our Haines buttplates to the early Lancaster kit.  I have done this before, and it makes a very nice looking, slightly later period Lancaster/Dickert style rifle.  Just something to consider.

[LuVerne Schumann]

With a little extra hand work you could fit one of our Haines buttplates to the early Lancaster kit.  I have done this before, and it makes a very nice looking, slightly later period Lancaster/Dickert style rifle.  Just something to consider.

Thank you. That was exactly what I was thinking, along with Dickert style brass components and decorative pieces. Unfortunately,  my inability to see 3D from pictures made me cautious about this.

[LuVerne Schumann]

I've changed the title of the thread to indicate drift.
After doing some basic research I've developed a list of parts that seem to indicate what differentiate the Deckard/Dickert rifles from the Early Lancaster. Feel free to poke holes in my list.
Length of pull 13.5 inches

Starting with the Early Lancaster kit substitute the following

50 cal 42" B weight or 54 cal C weight swamped
I Haines buttplate brass
Late Lancaster trigger guard brass
Sideplate Dickert
Flared breech plug

In addition to that, I would add the following:

Dickert patchbox
Medium star, German silver approx 2 inch on cheekpiece
Oval German silver on wrist
Toeplate #472 3.5 inch brass

Any additions, substractions or changes?

I'm concerned about the trigger guard, as I want a single trigger and want the guard looking like it belongs with the rest of the rifle.

[Mike Brooks]

Go looking for that Isaac Haines buttplate on an old gun and see if you can find something like it.

[Elnathan]

I'd leave off the German silver and the toe plate, as German silver is a much later thing - use sterling or coin if you need silver - and none of the earliest Dickerts have toeplates.

The earliest Dickerts shown in Shumway (the one listed in the Christian's Spring section) have buttplates 2 1/4" wide, which is quite large, not smaller than average. You'd actually be closer with the Early Lancaster than with the Chambers Isaac Haines, particularly if you bent the Lancaster just a bit to give it a slight cup and filed the heel down to round it off just a bit.

What originals are you looking at?

[LuVerne Schumann]

Go looking for that Isaac Haines buttplate on an old gun and see if you can find something like it.

Yes sir, that's the plan

I'd leave off the German silver and the toe plate, as German silver is a much later thing - use sterling or coin if you need silver - and none of the earliest Dickerts have toeplates.

The earliest Dickerts shown in Shumway (the one listed in the Christian's Spring section) have buttplates 2 1/4" wide, which is quite large, not smaller than average. You'd actually be closer with the Early Lancaster than with the Chambers Isaac Haines, particularly if you bent the Lancaster just a bit to give it a slight cup and filed the heel down to round it off just a bit.

What originals are you looking at?

I don't have access to any non--digital resource right now, original or otherwise.

I have an image in my mind of what you describe, and that is great.

Part of the problem is that this deployment to Afghanistan came early, which creamed my build planning time.

I'll keep looking around the net to see what I can find, unless someone wants to shoot me a link or photo.

[Mike Brooks]

John Bivins invented that buttplate on the Isaac Haines kit. I have no idea what he was thinking at the time, I haven't seen anything like it on an old lancaster gun. ANybody is welcome to prove me wrong. I'd go with the BP on Chambers early lancaster.

[rich pierce]

John Bivins invented that buttplate on the Isaac Haines kit. I have no idea what he was thinking at the time, I haven't seen anything like it on an old lancaster gun. ANybody is welcome to prove me wrong. I'd go with the BP on Chambers early lancaster.

He was thinking, “By golly, that will be the easiest buttplate to inlet EVER!”

My least favorite buttplate.

[LuVerne Schumann]

[Mike Brooks]

I have that BP and TG if that's what you're looking for. Sand cast.

[LuVerne Schumann]

I have that BP and TG if that's what you're looking for. Sand cast.

Pm sent

[JTR]

I'll keep looking around the net to see what I can find, unless someone wants to shoot me a link or photo.

Here's a link to the Jacob Dickert from the library here.
This is a later one, probably made around 1800, so does not have all the early features you might be looking for.
Seems to me that the barrel length on the Dickerts I had info on were in the 42 to 44 inch long range.
A lot, maybe most, of these old guns had the barrels whacked off from the muzzle and the breech when percussed, but it's generally pretty easy to determine the original length to a reasonable degree of accuracy.
As I owned it for a number of years, I have a lot of pictures of this rifle if you need something in particular.

I know there are a couple guys posting on this forum that own early Dickerts, so maybe someone will pop in with comments.

https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=22664.0

[LuVerne Schumann]

Thanks!

[Elnathan]

The buttplate on this rifle is very typical of Dickert's early work, I think: http://www.cherrytreefamily.com/RCA-V1_4_Dickert.jpg The ones following look, at least to my casual inspection, to have been molded from the same master.

I don't think it would take much to convert Chambers' Early Lancaster to match that one in profile. My first (and only completed) build used that same buttplate, albeit an early sand-cast version, and I believe that there is plenty of brass in the heel to reshape it a bit.

[TommyG]

If the gun in the pics you posted is what you are looking to replicate, I would be looking for a correct lock as well.  That piece looks like Dickert #9 or #DFA5 on the 2019 "Moravian Made Rifles" KRA disc.  I actually had a chance to view this gun at the Morgantown show last year.  It is a very eye catching piece of Dickert's work IMO. I have been gathering parts to build this particular gun in the future and the lock is somewhat unique as it seems sort of tall/broad(filling out the lock panels nicely), with a squared tail and a rounded pan.  At this point I'm thinking of using a gunmakers lock with some extensive file work.  Maybe others with more knowledge could chime in.  According to the KRA disc the buttplate is 5" high x 1 7/8" wide.

[LuVerne Schumann]

If the gun in the pics you posted is what you are looking to replicate, I would be looking for a correct lock as well.  That piece looks like Dickert #9 or #DFA5 on the 2019 "Moravian Made Rifles" KRA disc.  I actually had a chance to view this gun at the Morgantown show last year.  It is a very eye catching piece of Dickert's work IMO. I have been gathering parts to build this particular gun in the future and the lock is somewhat unique as it seems sort of tall/broad(filling out the lock panels nicely), with a squared tail and a rounded pan.  At this point I'm thinking of using a gunmakers lock with some extensive file work.  Maybe others with more knowledge could chime in.  According to the KRA disc the buttplate is 5" high x 1 7/8" wide.

Krueger-Dunning has bit me in the butt so often as I explore this hobby it's shocking I have anything left back there. I was planning to just put a generic Germanic lock on it and calling it good but now you have me something to think about. Thank you for that input. I think.

[LuVerne Schumann]

Another nice looking contemporary Dickert rifle of the correct era http://www.allenmartinrifles.net/gallery-of-guns-2/j-dickert-1770s-rifle/