Musket Bore Fouling

[JLayne]

All,
I will start this with an admission that until recently acquiring a Pedersoli 1766 Charleville replica, I had never shot a black powder smoothbore or musket, just rifles. And normally, when firing my long rifles, I am able to fire 10-20 shot strings using a tight patch without swabbing the bore between shots. So I was surprised to find this is not the case with my Charleville. It is a .69 caliber, and I have tried using a bare .675 round ball, and a .662 round ball using a .010 patch, but in both instances I am only able to get a about four shots before the bore is so fouled it gets difficult to load. I also tried loading the .675 ball with the .010 patch, but it would not start down the bore.

A cleaning patch run down the bore after the fourth shot in both of the above instances produced some pretty thick fouling, and at the end of the day, it took me longer to clean the bore after those four shots than it typically does to clean a rifle after 15-20. So my question is whether I am doing something wrong, or if that is simply to be expected with a smoothbore musket?  In case it makes a difference, when using patches I lubed them with Mr. Flintlock's Patch Lube (same lube I use in my rifles) and each ball was loaded over 85 grains of Goex 2F.

Thanks in advance for any advice.
Jay

[smylee grouch]

How much windage do you have in the bore with those patches? If you can do it a tighter combo might help.

[rich pierce]

More lube on a slightly tighter combo is my vote.

[Hungry Horse]

 Here we go again. Smoothbore muskets were designed to be shot with paper cartridges, or bare ball. Unless you just love stuck balls, And swabbing the bore every couple of shots, You might try using the smaller of the balls mentioned, 90 or 100 gr. Of 2F, or even 1F. Dimpling the balls by shaking them in an old coffee can, or paint can, can have a positive effect as well. At any rate I have not found the trouble produced by patching the ball in a smoothbore to be worth it. Any gain from patching the ball is minimal at best.

  Hungry Horse

[bob in the woods]

Unless the patch is soaking wet and so cleans the bore each shot , you will have the results you're getting.  I gave up on patches in smoothbores long long ago. There is no place for the patch to displace into [ rifling ]  so it's going to be a struggle sooner or later. I shoot mainly cartridges in my smoothbores and when I stopped trying to get a tight fit to the bore, accuracy got better, and loading got easier.
When I had a 12 bore, I shot .690 balls .  My 20 bore gets loaded with .600 balls.

[Daryl]

I've not shot paper ctgs. in my smoothbore like Bob does.  There are some guys who use really thin patches at rendezvous in them, but
those fellows are not in the winner's circle.  Taylor is however and he uses a tight ball and patch combination and there is no wiping at
any time over the course of fire, which is 21 or 22 shots usually. On our own course (trail) we shoot upwards of 40 shots and no one wipes
their bore, nor needs to. We all use snug ball and patch combinations. The winners at both our trail and at Hefley's trails all use snug combinations.
Targets at both ranges, will run from point blank, to about 100 meters, which is 110yards.  The odd time at Hefley, targets for smoothbores run
to 150yards. It's interesting that the same guys hit them every year and they use tight combinations. Hmmmmmmm.
Also, Bob's combinations are also snug with the doubled paper ctg. walls.

[varsity07840]

Try an over powder lubed 12 ga. fiber wad. My Hoyt relined original 1816 has a .687 bore. I use a .662 ball and .020 patch with the wad and I never have fouling problems. You don't need to soak the wad in lube. If you do you're going to get the powder wet in hot weather if the lube squeezes out. A good coating on the outside is all you need.

[WadePatton]

Perhaps a thicker patch would carry more lube, and more lube would allow a better wiping down by the loading process.

And I'd be trying bare ball as HH relates it: 20 thou under bore diameter ball, and nothing else but powder and the over-ball wadding of some sort.  The beauty of that load is there's only one thing to tweak (if you don't count dimpling).

[Daryl]

The thicker the patch, the more lube it carries, yes.
I was going to try HH's bare ball and wool or something else over it, but didn't get around to it
last summer.  I'll try to remember to test that this year. As well, I have those square rare-earth magnets
with the hole through them at act as a peep sight, so I expect rifle-accuracy - or not.

[Clark Badgett]

Hungry Horse is right. .69 cal muskets were designed to fired with paper patched .64 or .65 balls. And yes, they do get difficult to load after a few shots, just read some old soldier's accounts to hear of this fact. When they get tight, remove the paper and bare ball.

[varsity07840]

Hungry Horse is right. .69 cal muskets were designed to fired with paper patched .64 or .65 balls. And yes, they do get difficult to load after a few shots, just read some old soldier's accounts to hear of this fact. When they get tight, remove the paper and bare ball.

The boys in the N-SSA have some interesting methods for shooting close to bore size balls and dealing with fouling. One is similar to what one would use in a Hall or Ferguson breech loader. A ball dipped in a lube that dries relatively hard. Paper cartridges are not allowed.

[thecapgunkid]

JLayne, no matter what you think about you will have to find the better load with time and a lot of touch offs.  Just look at the variety of advice given here by some pretty experienced shooters.

When I was out trekking with my .69 cal Navy Arms Charleville that was really a .68 cal Charleville  I found that a thick, well lubed patch with a cleaner as a lube gave me up to ten shots.  I don't dare try that with my little .54 octagon to round that I cobbled into a Chambers Little Feller Stock.

I had to go up to 65 grains to group and use a lubed wad, ball and another lubed wad to get five or six rounds .  Even lubed paper cartridges were tough.



You might want to consider this;  The original goal of the musket seems to have been to get off maybe five loose, dry rounds before the bayonet charge.  Account after account of a prolonged shooting match such as the battle on snowshoes was probably frantic loading of buck and ball without anything else (we think).

I wonder if five rounds should be the goal before you settle on your load and get resigned to swabbing....kinda sorta take the hint...

[rich pierce]

For my .69, a .662 ball, 0.022 patch really wet is what I use at the range for shooting without cleaning between shots. Only problem is I can load and shoot fast enough that the barrel gets pretty hot.

[Daryl]

For my .69, a .662 ball, 0.022 patch really wet is what I use at the range for shooting without cleaning between shots. Only problem is I can load and shoot fast enough that the barrel gets pretty hot.

Exactly.
Paper ctgs that actually engage the rifling, foul the bore of my .69 rifle by the 11th shot. Thus, I have 2 choices, wipe the bore or shoot a cleaning shot of patched round ball with 85gr. 2F using the rifle's hickory rod. Loading the patched ball is what I choose to do, then I can fire 10 more ACCURATE shots with paper ctgs. As noted, they actually engrave the paper somewhat on the rifling, then the ctg. wads up beneath the ball. As these paper ctgs. are hunting loads, the powder charge in them is 165gr. 2F GOEX. NEVER has a paper ctg. caught fire or even smoldered - the muzzle blast even blasts the
paper into confetti. No lube on the paper and maybe that is why they do not 'catch' and burn.
I have shot the .662" balls in my .69 rifle, but need 2 .017" patches to help seal the bore, due to the rifling.