Small bore, something different

[chapmans]

  Last Fri. Larry and I went to the range, he worked on some loads, for his new .54, I was trying some new patch material in the .40 , another friend/shooter was there with this little rifle, it's a .22 cal English style with an original buttplate, steel gripcap, buffalo horn nosecap(he got the horn from Jack Haugh), false muzzle along with piston starter. He shoots .22 cal. bullets he casts himself and has .22 cal lead rb's for it. It is sort of a miniture long range rifle, I think 100 yds would be long range for this, although they do shoot 200 yds at Etna Green with .22 cartridge so I guess you could try it. The bullets are in the 45gr to 55gr size.


















The rifle was built by Don Kammerer probably in the 1980's.
  Regards Steve C.

[Colonial Riflesmith]

Do you know what load he uses in the .22?

[northmn]

The bullet looks a lot like a bullet I have used in centerfire 22's at about 53 grains.  A Lyman mold.  If you think about it, A rifle like that could be a lot of fun as 1000 yard BPC ranges or even the 500 yard silouhette ranges cannot be found everywhere, especially in my area where logging is a major industry.  Cost of ammo would not break you either.  Good idea, needs more of a following.  Is it a centerfire barrel at 1-14 or 1-12 or rimfire at 1-16 twist?

DP

[Roger Fisher]

I hope ol Daryl sees this one.   

[chapmans]

  Colonial Riflesmith,
    I think he was shooting/ trying 15gr and 20gr loads of fffg.
  Steve

  DP,
   The barrel is a Douglas .22 centerfire but I'm not sure of the twist, it seems like he mentioned 1-14 maybe Larry will remember, then maybe not! He was using a cork wad between the powder and bullet, he wasn't having great sucess that day but I remember years ago (15 or so) he was shooting it at Friendship off the bench at 100yds and it was working pretty good then.
  Steve

[northmn]

Just for kicks I tried BP in a 22 Hornet as there was a base for the hornet in BP days and used a bullet that looks an awful lot like that one. It was incredibly fussy.  Garbe mentioned using small bores like the old 25-2- etc for varmit hunting and mentioned that he used a couple of grains of Red Dot to make things more consistant.  What hold for ML's does not hold for BPC but real small bore may be fussy

DP

[Larry Pletcher]

The twist may well have been 1-14, but I don't remember.  I had ear protection  on a lot of the time, and can get tunneled in on something  else even without ears on.  It is a sweet gun though.  Well made, quality parts, and good sights.

I like small bores, but have trouble with them.  Ever tried to seat a .22 cal ball sprue up?  

Regards,
Pletch

[bob in the woods]

I shoot my .22 RF at 300 yds to practice for the 1000 yd BP matches. Lots of fun. I have been thinking about building a rifle like this one for a long time. I'll probably make mine .25 cal just cause my fingers are a little big to handle anything smaller.

[northmn]

I see it has a drum for a breech which makes sense as making a patent would might require some fine machining and a too small flash channel.

DP

[jmforge]

That is pretty sweet.  I think that most of the  "rook and rabbit" rifles that the English builders made back in the mid 1800's tended to be in the same caliber range as our squirrel rifles, but they fired roundballs.  I saw an 1850-something  .36 caliber Purdey rook rifle on an auction site that looked exactly like a mini version of one of their 16 bore singles and had a 27 inch barrel and a square lollipop tang sight adjustable for both windage and elevation.  I think that you could have some fun with one of those maybe in .36 or .40 using a 13/16 barrel cut back to the correct length. I think the listing said this gun weighed well under 5 pounds.  The only problem that I see with guns like that is that you might have to use a historically incorrect lock like the Davis Hawken pistol lock (or make your own lock plate and fit the pistol lock size parts to it) because nobody makes a pistol sized English bar lock that I know of and a full sized lock would look out of proportion on such a dainty rifle.  Ditto for the trigger guard.  I think that with this rifle, since it is a target gun, the barrel is pretty burly, so the rifle can have a little more meat to the stock and still look right.

[Candle Snuffer]

That's the nicest .22 Rifle I've seen in a long time.  I think it should be capable of marking fairly well out to 200 yards and more.

Aside from muzzle loading, I too (like Bob Miller) shoot long range .22 RF...  However, my shooting is not for practicing for larger caliber long range events,,, I shoot the .22 for what it is.  Lots of fun!

As a matter of fact I'm heading out in the morning to see how many hits out of 30 shots for record I can get on the 5" x 7" - 200 yard gong.  I actually shoot at smaller gongs (5x6, 4x5, & 3x4) from 200 yards with good success, but tomorrow's internet match is what is stated above, 30 shot from 200 yards.

I would think that the pictured .22 muzzle loader would be capable of generating some very good accuracy.  Is the .22 bullet paper patched?

[Colonial Riflesmith]

I wish Douglas was still making BP barrels. Good barrel for a good price.

[California Kid]

I remember Don Kramerer from years ago at Friendship. Always had some neat stuff in his booth, and made some nice guns.

[Don Getz]

Kid.....I also remember Don, did a lot of odd stuff....miniatures, etc.   I recall a Jager that he built with a verse from the Bible engraved the whole length of the barrel.   I also recall an incident that Don screwed up on a Twigg fowler.  He did
this Twigg fowler using a barrel we made for him, primarily a round barrel with a raised rib down the top of the barrel.
He achieved this raised rib, as Jack Haugh did on several, by chiseling down into the barrel on both sides of the rib to
leave it standing high.   However, on this one he chiseled a bit too deep out near the muzzle, and on about the third or
fourth shot, the rib raised up just like an inch worm, and would you believe he gave me h____ for making a bad barrel.
I remember looking at the barrel and I think it was chiseled down to about .010 thick....not quite enough left for a gun
barrel.............Don

[chapmans]

 Don,
  I still have that barrel, it was for Kevin Tinny, the problem was the outside dimensions he was using were for a 16 ga, bbl but he was using a 12 ga bbl needless to say it didn't work.
   Steve C.

[Daryl]

Right-on, Roger - I'd like a fun little plinker like that - for ground squirrels and range shooting alike.  Even to .30 or .32 cal would be A/OK, but a fine little rifle like that - WOW!.

Appears to be a gas-check style bullet, without the gas check and lube (looks like SPG) in the grease grooves as well as filling the gas check groove. The absence of the copper check will give a 'good' start for the bullet in the false muzzle - I found the same in a .50 slug barrel I once had and used a mould I'd designed with a rebated base (like a gas check mould has) just for this purpose.

I'd be interested in hearing what twist this barrel has for sure, as normal for 1860 through 1930's era was a 16", much too slow for a long bullet like a 55gr. or more. Even a 14" is too generally slow for low velocities with a long bullet, but might be OK with a RN or FN bullet. Neat stuff - it's all about experimentation. What a delightful little rifle to 'play' with. I'd be concentrating on a 45gr. down to 35gr. bullet, flat nose probably, like the .224438 with the gas check groove cut off the mould.   Better accuracy might come with a shorter bullet if the twist is indeed 14".