wild fowl hunter question

[old george]

Anybody hunt ducks/geese etc with their flint fowlers? Are you using choked barrels and what loads?
 

george

[Bob McBride]

Anybody hunt ducks/geese etc with their flint fowlers? Are you using choked barrels and what loads?
 

george

Never even considered it. Maybe someday. Migratory/water fowl is about the only type hunting I do modern. 3.5” Black Clouds and Pew, pew, pew, pew. So much fun...


That  said, I would love to hear about BP Goose loads myself.

[snapper]

I used to use bismuth on geese out of a 10 ga.    It was a hoot.  I sold the gun to help pay for another ml rifle.

Nothing like letting loose both barrels at geese and trying to see through the smoke if you hit any.

One time I was hunting with a couple of buddies.  I need to go back to the truck and get something.   Took the gun as we all know if I did not I would of wished I did.   As soon as I got to the truck, had  some fly right over the top of me.   My buddies could not see me, but they were laughing their butts off as they heard the booms and saw the smoke.

Fleener

[577SXS]

I think the biggest problem with duck and goose hunting with a muzzleloader is having to use non lead shot. About the only non lead I would think usable in a muzzleloader would be Bismuth. Bismuth is good shot but very expensive. None of the other non lead shot is soft enough to shoot in soft muzzleloader barrels without using a plastic shot cup. All that being said go for it! If would be fun. I turkey hunt with my flintlock shotgun and used to dove hunt quite a bit with a percussion shotgun. Killed many doves with it. Made quite an impression on the other hunters when the first shot went off.

[Daryl]

I would suggest trying to shoot geese with a non-choked 20 bore might be more than challenging.
Shooting ducks over decoys, would work quite well, I would think, as long as there was some load
development to get a decent load. Shooting should be 30yards and closer, so workable.
Geese, if drawn in close, NP, but with limited # of the heavier shot in a wide load, might work, but??
This is all speculation as I have not gone that route. I quit hunting migratory birds when the lead-shot
ban was brought out.

[old george]

Thanks to the members that replied to my query, I had forgotten about the softer steel in muzzleloaders. I knew bismuth was expensive.

george

[Daryl]

That, and not just ANY plastic wad if using iron or tungsten shot. You would have to use steel shot wads, with a hard card of two between the wad and the powder to prevent
plastic melting and coating the bore. I've done that myself and needed one of those tornado wire brushes with the swirls of stainless wire to get the plastic off the bores. It was
as chore. The card is necessary if using plastic with black powder.

[bob in the woods]

I hunted waterfowl with a non choked 10 bore Chamber's N.E. fowling gun.
Also had a 12 bore.
My load was bismuth shot, probably around BB or #2 size. I made the shot myself. 2 OZ over 2 card wads.  Thin overshot wad.  No cushion wads.
My hunting area is the beaver pond behind my house, and shots are within 30 yards or so ...or I don't shoot.  The birds will be back and I'm in no hurry.   It took me a long while to get used to shooting the flintlock and actually hit anything [ ducks and geese]   Bismuth is relatively expensive, but I don't really shoot a lot of it since I 'm so particular about waiting for a decent chance...and usually hunt alone since modern shotgun shooters I know do a whole lot of sky blasting.  BTW- premium 3 and 3 1/2 waterfowl shells aren't cheap either !
I recommend reading an article originally published in one of the Buckskinning books "  Wing Shooting with a Flintlock Shotgun by Chris Gilgun.  It was a big help.

[old george]

Thanks for the info Bob

george

[Nordnecker]

I remember seeing a picture of Barbie Chambers with a swan last year.

[riflee]

I may be able to hunt turtles with my smooth bore with the danged donut patterns I get. I never tried ducks or geese.  The only way I ever got a turkey with a smooth bore was loading 2 oz. of shot and 90gr. FFg and keeping within 30 or less yards.   The only smooth bores I know of that will handle water foul shot are the Pedersoli doubles..

[Daryl]

 riflee - one trick is to use 2 or 3 overshot (thin card) wads on the powder as well as over the shot. That way, no heavy wads are blasted through or into the back of the shot column when
it exits the bore.  This worked in an 11 bore single H.Wahl gun I borrowed for the trap shoot at rendezvous, many years ago. I used 3 thin "B" wads between powder and shot and only
used 1 1/4oz. of shot. Won the match with 10 straight.

[riflee]

Daryl, Thanks fer the info about the thin cards. I've tried that though. I must be cursed.

I'd get better patterns with an open choke than a choked one. That's the choke at the muzzle.

I think the good ole jug choke would be better. I think with the jug choke it's not the wide then choked in the barrel that does the trick. I think it's the release of pressure from the wide spot that helps the pattern not blow out at the release at the muzzle.

Anywhooo.....when I go back to finding a decent pattern I'll try the thin cards. I had a 10ga. that I hunted rabbits with and tried to learn to shoot high or low or left or right to let the rabbit run into the one part of the donut pattern. One thing I found out was that I could blast away at a real close rabbit busting out of cover and not ruin the meat just by shooting dead on because of the thin pattern in the middle of the donut.

One thing I thunk is the longer the smooth barrel is the better pattern it will shoot.  I borrowed my bothers smooth bore that had a 36 in barrel and got a turkey with it once. It was about 30 yards when I shot. My smooth bore has a shorter barrel. It can shoot a big round ball fairly well. I'm to old to try to shoot a duck with a round ball and hit.  A deer standing still is a better target.

How long was the barrel you shot with?  A friend I once had used a 54cal. smooth bore for everything he hunted and could shoot about everything clean kill.  His barrel was really long. 40 inches or so. He shot ball or shot loads with it. I think the longer barrel lets the lead get a little ahead of the wads at some point so the lead free wheels out the muzzle with only the front thin card to imped the pattern. Sorta like the wads slow a little at the choke. Know what I mean?  Like the lead shot gets hit sorta like a ball getting hit with a baseball bat.

Anywhoooo......you must be a good shot.

[Feltwad]

riflee - one trick is to use 2 or 3 overshot (thin card) wads on the powder as well as over the shot. That way, no heavy wads are blasted through or into the back of the shot column when
it exits the bore.  This worked in an 11 bore single H.Wahl gun I borrowed for the trap shoot at rendezvous, many years ago. I used 3 thin "B" wads between powder and shot and only
used 1 1/4oz. of shot. Won the match with 10 straight.

Before the lead shot ban for wild fowl here in the  UK   I used original single and double barred muzzle loading shotgun  from 10 bore to the big 4 bore for both geese and ducks  I am a strong believer of a volume load  which I have used for  many decades .  My procedure for loading is powder  two 1/8 cards over powder , shot and finish with a one 1/16  card over shot , for the over shot cards I use two  in the big bores  6 and 4
Feltwad

[smylee grouch]

Nice looking collection Feltwad. 

[Scota4570]

I did a fair amount of duck hunting with a Beretta O/U.  This was mostly Bluebills form a silt blind in a salt marsh.  Bluebills are really dumb and the shooting is extremely easy.  The main lesson was the steel shot is useless at ML velocities.

I would try nice shot if I had the opportunity to do it again.  http://www.niceshotinc.com
Bismuth is probably fine too.  Tungsten matrix?   Tungsten Bronze is great stuff but it is extremely hard.  Tungsten Super Shot may be be the ultimate, the density is much higher than lead.   You can shoot it slow and in smaller sizes.  IT is very expensive.  All but Bismuth and NIce-Shot will require special modern wads and tedious loading procedures. 

[old george]

Thanks everybody, I never was a wildfowl hunter and you all have convinced not to try at this time of my life

george

[riflee]

Feltwad, that is a very nice collection of originals. The one on the far left reminds me of a Hawken. Exactly what I am planing on making with a 36in. barrel in 12 gauge.

Scota, thanks for the tip on the "nice shot". That seems like some good shot. No special wads got my attention. Wonder if it needs to be buffered? Being pretty soft and all.

[Daryl]

riflee - my 20 bore has a standard choke at the end of the bore, about improved cylinderand it shoots modified patterns.
I don't over "shot" it much, just 1 1/8oz with 82gr. 2F and 1/8"  hard card on the powder, then 1/2" fiber cushion wad lubed, then shot, then 1/16" thin card over the shot. - this is a 'standard'-type load
for a standard choked gun.

[axelp]

I use ITX non lead shot in my muzzleloading smoothbore regularly. I have to since I hunt upland game in California. It generates decent patterns and I have experience no damage to my gun from using it. I know some choose to use a paper shot cup and that works good for them as well from what I have read. I have read that in testing, the makers of ITX TomBob Outdoors found that they achieved "superior to lead" patterns with ITX and they state in writing that ITX is soft enough to not damage old shotgun bores. With proper load envelopment, I have no doubt that ITX would be great on water fowl. The only caveat that Tom Bob has about using ITX was that it was not recommended for full choke barrels.

[Feltwad]

Feltwad, that is a very nice collection of originals. The one on the far left reminds me of a Hawken. Exactly what I am planing on making with a 36in. barrel in 12 gauge.

Scota, thanks for the tip on the "nice shot". That seems like some good shot. No special wads got my attention. Wonder if it needs to be buffered? Being pretty soft and all.

The gun in question is a 4 bore fowler  with a 40 inch barrel
Feltwad

[Daryl]

In this H Wahl 11 bore fowler, IIRC, I used a square load of 3 1/2 drams 96gr. of 2F, 3 thin overshot cards, just over 1 1/4oz. shot then another card wad.
A measure that throws 90gr. 2F GOEX, throws 1 1/4oz shot.
That load won the trap shoot so I assume the pattern was quite fair. No choke. I was shooting against choked guns.