Author Topic: Adventures in case hardening  (Read 2574 times)

Offline RAT

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 699
Adventures in case hardening
« on: August 24, 2020, 05:00:43 PM »
This was my first attempt at color case hardening. I’m building a Gemmer period Hawken rifle (ca. 1865). I’ll post pictures when it’s finished. I posted some case hardening questions a few weeks ago and thought I’d show some results.

The first photo is the heat treating oven purchased from Brownells. The bone and wood charcoal was also purchased from Brownells. I bolted it to a short cart to make it moveable for storage. I can still park my car in the garage.

By the way… when you buy this much stuff from Brownells they send you a personal thank you letter.



The crucibles (also from Brownells). I purchased 2 of the large size. I cut 3” from the top of one of them to give me a smaller size. I modified the lids so they would slide off easily. The procedure is to pull the crucible from the oven, rest it on the top of the quench tank, rotate it by rolling it end-for-end on top of the tank, setting the lid between guide bars on the tank top, pull the pin holding the crucible lid on, and slide the crucible forward dumping the contents. It takes longer to say it that to do it. I would post a photo of it, but didn’t have anyone around to take a picture. Apparently they painted the crucibles. The paint burned off in the oven. It didn’t seem to affect anything.



I fabricated my quench tank from two 20 gal garbage cans. The outer can has a garden hose faucet attached. This is how I fill and empty the tank. It works great, but I had to caulk the seams with silicone caulk to stop leaks. It still leaks from the handles, but not fast enough that it won’t hold water.

For the inner tank I cut a section out of the middle where the handles were located and fastened the 2 parts back together with machine screws. This allows them to nest closer together so the water is about 2” from the top.

I put a support roller stand in front of the tank to help support the crucible tongs.



The green thing in the bottom is my catch basket. It’s actually a gold classifier. It worked better than making something. The mesh is heavy, just the right mesh size, and it fits the bottom perfectly. I simply cut a hole into the bottom of the inner tank.

The top is fabricated from hardware store steel plate (I think its 16 ga.) and ¼” thick bars. The 2 bars on the top are spaced to allow the crucible lid to set between them. There’s another one under the edge of the opening. This adds rigidity so the top doesn’t sag from the heat. The 2 bolts at the front edge are set through steel spacers. The front of the crucible lid fits under these and they hold the lid in place.



The blue hose goes to a small compressor I used to use with an airbrush. I used it to aerate the water 15 minutes before quenching.





Some of the parts after coming out of the kitchen oven for tempering.



The butt plate was braced with a piece of black iron pipe riveted to a piece of square channel. The toe plate and muzzle cap were screwed to a piece of square channel. I don’t have a picture of it, but I braced the tang and trigger plate by fastening them together with 2 bolts and 1” steel spacers. It seemed very rigid and I didn’t notice much distortion. I threaded a nut onto the threads of the breech plug and put a screw into the nipple hole to protect the threads. The trigger guard also had a nut on the threaded stud.

Parts were packed in the crucible with a mixture of 2 parts wood to 1 part bone. The crucible was placed in the oven cold. The oven was set to a temperature of 1350° with a hold time of 2 hours. The water in the quench tank was aerated for 15 minutes and then the compressor turned off and the hose removed before quenching.

After washing off the parts they were placed in a cast iron skillet and put in my kitchen oven to temper. They were placed in cold and the oven set to 425° for 1 hour. They stayed in the oven to cool.

Everything wouldn’t fit in one crucible, so I used both the sizes of crucible for everything but the lock parts and the triggers themselves (the trigger plate was done along with the hardware). The lock parts and triggers will be done in a few days. I plan to do these at a higher temperature to provide a greater depth of hardening.

So far I’m pretty happy for a first attempt. This could get addicting.

Bob

Offline Greg Pennell

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1522
Re: Adventures in case hardening
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2020, 05:45:48 PM »
Looks like you’re off to a good start!  Experimenting with this has been a lot of fun, sometimes frustrating experience. You’ll find consistency is the key to getting predictable results.  I actually keep a log book of all my packs...I don’t do a high volume, and it’s good to be able to go back and check my notes before making a run.

Greg
“Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of your walks” Thomas Jefferson

Offline Bob Roller

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9637
Re: Adventures in case hardening
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2020, 05:54:33 PM »
RAT,
Success can be and is addicting so keep it up.This is really nice coloring.
I have been using my dwindling supply of Kasenit on these triggers I make
and am NOT happy with Brownells or Cherry Red.
I would like to get some more Kasenit but will not pay a gougers price for
it or anything else.
Bob Roller

Offline Rolf

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1753
  • There's more than one way to skin a cat.
Re: Adventures in case hardening
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2020, 06:08:50 PM »
Really great looking colors!! Looks like a real professional job.

Best regards
Rolf

Offline JPK

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 384
Re: Adventures in case hardening
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2020, 09:52:28 PM »
Very nice! Your starting out with a well equipped setup and saving your self a lot of head aches. The appearance of the work can (as you likely know) be altered by the polish of the metal and mix of charcoal. A mix of 4 to 1 makes a bit brighter colors and contrary to what I was told a high polish will work when that is desired.
IMG_1099 by Oliver Sudden, on Flickr
A clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory.

Offline jerrywh

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8885
    • Jerrywh-gunmaker- Master  Engraver FEGA.
Re: Adventures in case hardening
« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2020, 02:59:14 AM »
The final test will be when you go to install the butt plate. if it was previously installed before hardening you may get a surprise.
Nobody is always correct, Not even me.

Offline STJ1954

  • Starting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 19
Re: Adventures in case hardening
« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2020, 12:56:57 PM »
Looks good. I did this years ago using pot furnace and salt bath similar to Savage /Stevens. Chemicals from Heat Bath Corporation. Just wondering what water was use city or well water. I found best results from demineralized water. I also had unlimited water supply.

Offline Dphariss

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9886
  • Kill a Commie for your Mommy
Re: Adventures in case hardening
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2020, 03:56:28 PM »
The final test will be when you go to install the butt plate. if it was previously installed before hardening you may get a surprise.
I had to use my arbor press and brass blocks to get a Dale Johnson (bent Siler) to go back in the stock. Managed to get it back to the proper bend to fit the inlet in about 3-4 trys. The quence (not colored just hardened) straightened the plate about 3/32".


Dan
He who dares not offend cannot be honest. Thomas Paine

Offline Dphariss

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9886
  • Kill a Commie for your Mommy
Re: Adventures in case hardening
« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2020, 04:08:45 PM »
Looking good Bob. Real good.

Dan
He who dares not offend cannot be honest. Thomas Paine

Offline RAT

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 699
Re: Adventures in case hardening
« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2020, 05:09:25 PM »
The butt plate and toe plate went in without issue. Same with the muzzle cap. The breech plug went back into the barrel fine.

The entry pipe is going to need a little additional inletting, the finial isn't flush with the wood anymore.

The tang is giving me a few issues. I removed some wood, which helped, but I don't want to remove too much. It looks like it may go back down when I tighten up the tang screws. If it doesn't crack it. I plan to re-temper the tang and trigger plate a second time before trying.

I'm not happy with the screws, so I plan to re-do those. I haven't done the lock and triggers yet.

I wasn't sure if I wanted to do the barrel key inlays. I'm still on the fence.

Water was city water from my outside faucet. We have very heavy water... welcome to the Rockies! When I was bluing the barrel... it didn't like it, so I switched to distilled water. So it made a difference with the bluing, but not the case hardening.
Bob

Offline jerrywh

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8885
    • Jerrywh-gunmaker- Master  Engraver FEGA.
Re: Adventures in case hardening
« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2020, 10:46:19 PM »
You did a good job. The colors look great.
Nobody is always correct, Not even me.

Offline Dphariss

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9886
  • Kill a Commie for your Mommy
Re: Adventures in case hardening
« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2020, 02:58:24 AM »
The butt plate and toe plate went in without issue. Same with the muzzle cap. The breech plug went back into the barrel fine.

The entry pipe is going to need a little additional inletting, the finial isn't flush with the wood anymore.

The tang is giving me a few issues. I removed some wood, which helped, but I don't want to remove too much. It looks like it may go back down when I tighten up the tang screws. If it doesn't crack it. I plan to re-temper the tang and trigger plate a second time before trying.

I'm not happy with the screws, so I plan to re-do those. I haven't done the lock and triggers yet.

I wasn't sure if I wanted to do the barrel key inlays. I'm still on the fence.

Water was city water from my outside faucet. We have very heavy water... welcome to the Rockies! When I was bluing the barrel... it didn't like it, so I switched to distilled water. So it made a difference with the bluing, but not the case hardening.

The problem with case hardened screws is they often chip at the edge of the screw driver slot when tightened. Your 400 degree anneal might prevent this. But I heat blue all casehardened screws. Learned some lessons years ago. All Shiloh Sharps screws were case hardened by cyanide process when I was there and they were never drawn back to reduce the brittleness at the edges. Sometimes the "points" of the threads would fail as well. This was after hot tank blueing  the parts.

Dan
He who dares not offend cannot be honest. Thomas Paine

10thumbs

  • Guest
Re: Adventures in case hardening
« Reply #12 on: October 06, 2020, 03:22:16 AM »
  Nice looking colors. Must be good steel. For screws, a niter blue might be a simpler option. Just take them out when they get to the color you're after. (2/3 lye and 1/3 saltpeter will make a niter bath).