pistol barrel rate of twist?

[beleg2]

As I understand pistol barrels have a shorter rate of twist than rifles.

What is the recommended rate twist for different calibers to shot round balls.
I would like to know specially .40, .50, .58, .62 and .72".

Thanks
Martin

[Dphariss]

A round ball needs little twist.
I had a 54 with a 66 twist that would shoot into 2" or at 25 yards.

Dan

[ottawa]

I've heard that there are quite a few good shooters out there that used a cut off from a rifle barrel to make pistoles one person on here talked about a remington? cap revolver with barrel converted from a slow twist rifle barrel that shoots real good so I would guus it safe to say that a fast twist it not need in a pistole just good riflling

[Dphariss]

This was shot recently with a 54 caliber pistol with a 66" twist.
25 yards. 30 grains of FFFG powder.
Yes with a rest.
Dan

[Daryl]

Generally, ML barrels sold specifically for pistols have rapid twists - ie: 18" to 24" depending on size. Smaller the bore, faster the twist.

This has more to do with charge than anything - My .45 flint pistol will shoot 1" groups at 25 yards (off the bags) using 20gr. 3F in it's 18" twist GM barrel.  My .54 pistol barrel made with a piece of 66" twist rifle barrel needs 50gr. of 3F to shoot into 2" at the same range. Any less powder and it opens up the group. The .54 will also hold onto 2 1/2" at 50 yards, if a 60gr. of 3F is used. The more powder used, the better it shoots.  A slow twist barrel'd pistol would be my choice for a hunting pistol - if that was legal here. The 66" in .54 that I have would work just fine.

The slower the twist, the more powder it needs to shoot accurately.

Taylor's .60 Hawken pistol has an 18" twist and we both make it shoot into a 1 1/2" hole for 5 shots at 25 yards - amazingly acurate - with 20 to 25gr. of powder. If it had a 60' or slower twist, I doubt it would shoot with less than 50 or 60gr. and probably not as well, either. This is why .45/70 barrels have been popular for cutting up into ML pistols for 40 yards - the 22" twist is fast enough to use little powder, low recoil and great accuracy. (in my most humble opinion, of course)

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I agree that a piece of rifle barrel in 1:48 or 1:66 will shoot as well as you need for a trail walk.  I've made several that way, and had lots of fun and success with them.
I have two barrels for my percussion Hawken pistol.  The main one is a Richard Hoch barrel in .60 cal. with a 1:35 (IIRC) twist. Everyone who shoots it is amazed at the consistent groups on paper....one ragged five shot hole at 25 yards offhand.  The second barrel is a 10" section of a brand new 45-70 barrel from Numerich Arms.  The twist is 1:22, the rifling square and shallow, and it too is wonderfully accurate.  I built a .50 cal pistol for Neil Hunter using a Green Mountain pistol twist barrel, whose twist I cannot remember - likely something like 1:22 or 1:28.  This particular pistol usually cleans up, if not shot by Neil, by his son Mark - just a remarkable marksman.
So when you are building a pistol, it will depend on the type of shooting you will be doing.  A rifle stub will serve well, but for paper targets where X's make the difference, a faster twist with shallower rifling is what you are after.
I'm sure Don Getz will have these figures and specs right on the tip of his eloquent tongue.

[Daryl]

Hmmm - was certain your .60 had an 18" twist - guess not - ever measure it?

[beleg2]

Thanks to all for the information.

I'm asking because I have just bought a couple of .50 barrels made by my friend Saverio Bonaza. His grandson is selling the last barrels. He passed three years ago. I still miss his friendship.
The barrels have some imperfection so I thought about making some pistols and a "buggy rifle" for my own son.
Also have plans for rifling my own barrel (an old dream), using another barrel as a guide. The project is a .62 or a .72 pistol barrel.

But I have more project in line waiting for time. 
Thanks

Martin

[Dphariss]

The slow twist barrels can approach 44 mag ballistics with heavy loads and as stated they will shoot well enough to kill big game to 75 yards.
For a backup hunting pistol the slow twist is fine, for a dedicated target pistol a fast twist like the GM pistol barrels will likely work best.

Dan

[Daryl]

The slow twist barrels can approach 44 mag ballistics with heavy loads and as stated they will shoot well enough to kill big game to 75 yards.
For a backup hunting pistol the slow twist is fine, for a dedicated target pistol a fast twist like the GM pistol barrels will likely work best.

Dan

My thoughts exactly.   Fast twist for target plinking, slow twist to allow heavy charges for punch!

[The Professor]

Wondering how much difference there would be between the slow twist and just using a smoothbore?

[Jerry V Lape]

Professor, I too would be interested in the accuracy of a smoothbore pistol.  Seems a smoothbore would be appropriate for a backup gun for close in work.; 

[Daryl]

Smooth- eh?  Taylor's smooth .60 is no match for my slow twist .54, that 's for sure - even at 20 yards.  Now, put in a light charge of powder in the slow twist and the accuracy degrades badly but still better than the smoothbore, however stoke it right and it's accuracy is very good - as good as some rifles I've shot - to 50 yards, that is.

Such a test would be interesting - one I'd like to complete some day- except I have no smooth barrel for my pistol - only a slow .54 for fun and fast .45 twist for target.
 

[Dphariss]

Wondering how much difference there would be between the slow twist and just using a smoothbore?

The rifled barrel will outshoot the smooth.

Dan

[FL-Flintlock]

Professor & Jerry,

Daryl is correct, rifled will run rings around a smoothie any day.  I ran some smoothies in .58 & .62 but without the benefit of good sights, just a front bead and tang groove which isn't very conducive to producing good reliable shot to shot sighting.  I also didn't shoot them enough to become familiar with them or do much load tuning but these preliminary test runs showed potential but nothing like what a rifled bore will do with good sights.  

I run 75gr 3F under a 0.535" ball in a 16" 1:66 .54 flinter that will readily print under 2" at 60yds; cutting the hunting powder charge by half gives up a little on accuracy inside of 25yds but it doesn't become real problematic until you get past 40yds.  The smaller the bore, the more picky they become on powder charge, a 12" 1:48 .36 proved to be very accurate but with one load only, even a slight variation either way in the powder charge destroyed the accuracy; had the same one-load issue with a 1:20 .40 and a 1:24 .45 too.  Years ago I messed with converting some el cheapo 1:48 .50 rifles into pistols.  Chopped the bbl to 18" on the first one and it wasn't picky at all but when I took it to 14" that's when it became a one-load gun.  Next one I stopped at 16" and she wasn't any different from the original 24" length; 45-60gr of 3F worked fine.  Faster twist barrels, 1:18 to 1:30, have always had low maximum powder charge limits and the smaller the bore, the lower the maximum charge.  

[Blacksmoke]

Martin:   Here are a couple of "proof" targets which I always fire to prove the barrel's ability to shoot a reasonable group.  The barrel is clamped in a wooden "jig", to simulate a wooden stock. This is ,in turn, held in place by set screws to the shooting bench so the barrel can be removed and reloaded for another shot.  The barrel will go back into the same socket each time to assure the exact same firing position.   These targets were fired some yrs. ago-- the .53 cal. was the first barrel that I ever rifled!  The .40cal. was fired some yrs. later when I tooled up to cut .40cal. barrels.  Both barrels were rifled in the fastest twist that I can cut-- 1 turn in 18".    My rifling is done on a hand operated rifling bench with a single tooth cutter.  I am now tooling up to cut .62 and .75 cal bores in a number of twists including "straight'.    
     Hugh   Toenjes

[beleg2]

Thanks for all answers, I always learn here.
Impressive "proof" targets!!!!

FL flinter,
My friend made many underhammer rifles 1.48" but when he began to make pistols he change pitch to 1-30 and 1-20".
I'm playing with the idea of trying a "buggy rifle" with 16" barrel, but really do not know.
I have not received the barrels yet.

Thanks
Martin

[FL-Flintlock]

Blacksmoke,

Great groups!


Martin,

I had a few fast twist bbls that would run full throttle loads but the majority of them tended to be fairly limited on how much horsepower you can put on a PRB without giving up accuracy.  Yes, we all know, myself included, that running hotrod loads isn't "necessary" but it sure is fun annoying the suppository gun shooters on the range and I do like having a buffer zone when hunting.  For a dedicated paper puncher though, running light loads is much more enjoyable and economical which is why I swing both ways on this issue. 

The 12" .36 1:48 wanted a 0.355" ball wrapped in a 0.012" patch and 28gr of 3F; it just refused to print if anything was changed.  On the flip side, I have seen some faster twist bores that aren't picky at all and will let you push a PRB as fast you like but in my experience they tend to be the exceptions.

Underhammer buggy rifles are slick but it depends on what you're doing with it as to what would be the most appropriate choice in rifling and bore size.  For a hunting application, the choice of gun likely means you'll be using it in thick cover where I myself would opt for a .58, .62 or .66 bore with slow twist for the simple fact of combining horsepower and momentum.  Tight shooting is fast and a scrub, sapling, vine or palmetto stalk isn't readily seen when you have a tusker running up on you and since I can't run or climb anymore, I much prefer having a bigger ball with more than enough velocity on it.  On the same note, that's not something I'd like to spend a day punching paper or tree rats with either. 

I don't pass judgment on anything, just stating that in my experience, slower twist bores have consistently offered more PRB loading options than bores with faster twists.  I have a couple customers running match rifles with 1:72 twist .40's and a varmint hunter running a 1:30 twist .40 so my opinion remains that as long as shooter is happy, that's all that really matters.

[Dphariss]

IIRC correctly many Buggy Rifles are turned round at the muzzle for a piston starter indicating the use of picket bullets.
Chapman mentions them shooting the long distances and the Buggy Rifles Ned Roberts talks about were also setup for pickets by the group sizes mentioned at 200 yards for the Billinghurst rifles.

Dan

[beleg2]

Thanks for your answers.
The barrels have 1 in 20" so they would work OK when shortened.
I'm playing with two ideas:
1- to make a buggy rifle for my son (9 years old) as a summer project to share with him (working together).
2- To transform my UH pistol to a pocket rifle attaching a shoulder stock. (if I can find it as I do not remember where I leaved it, LOL).

Thanks
Martin