cast off

[brokenhand]

 I am getting ready to start my second rifle from a plank, this one having a swamped barrel. It is planned to be a southern mtn. rifle, but with a 38 in B weight swamp in 40 cal. I was looking at the Kibler SM kit and noticed that it does not have cast off built into the stock. I am curious why this is so. I know it is not just because Jim is too lazy to do the work to design the stock.  There is cast off in the Colonial kit. I am wondering if it is because the stock is so thin and trim that it is just not necessary? Anyway, you see where I am going with this line of thought. Should I put cast off in my rifle?  My Chambers York has it as does my first rifle. Seems to be just right on those two. I don't have a whole lot of building experience and I'm curious about this. Opinions/thoughts?

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

The Kibler SMR has a stock design that incorporates the correct amount of drop at the comb particularly, and the heel, and a minimal cheek piece.  These features eliminate the need for cast off in the butt.

[B.Barker]

Skinny butt plates don't need cast off unless you use an overly large cheek rest.

[Daniel Coats]

Tang is too long.

[canadianml1]

My understanding is that southern gun butts are not placed on the shoulder but on the upper arm so cast-off is not an issue. Am I not correct??

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I'd say that depends on two things:  the shape of the butt plate and the shooter's style.  And I still think that the size of the butt stock is the deciding factor.  More voluptuous butts require cast off...reminds me of a song by Queen....

[Dennis Glazener]

My understanding is that southern gun butts are not placed on the shoulder but on the upper arm so cast-off is not an issue. Am I not correct??

I don't think that's always true. 

I don't know of any SMR, that I have handled, with cast maybe I just didn't notice it.
Dennis

[sespe]

And I still think that the size of the butt stock is the deciding factor.  More voluptuous butts require cast off...reminds me of a song by Queen....

Or that rapper fella.  "I like big butts and I cannot lie!"... 

I guess I just like the early guns.

[WadePatton]

I put cast off in my TN, because folks thought it would be good, and I was taking mixed instructions (much of it written for earlier guns). I've not examined so many antiques as to have an opinion there. 

[pjmcdonald]

My first southern mountain styled rifle, built from a kit, did not have cast off. I've since incorporated a little cast off into the last two North Carolina inspired rifles. The first was from the piedmont region (Deep River, if I recall). The second is Appalachian. I find they fit me better.

Cast off may not be historically correct for a properly designed rifle from eastern TN or western NC but I adjust a bit to fit my size and geometry. I'm tall and broad shouldered with a long neck. 1/4" to 3/8" cast off makes it easier for me to align the sights without craning my neck over.

Alternatively, I guess I could have increased drop at the heel and comb even more...

How one achieves a steady hold when shooting also makes a difference. For me, butt is fit into the crook of my shoulder joint, just on the upper arm. Rifle is held generally across my body. Right elbow up, about horizontal. Left elbow tucked in against my chest. The slight cast off brings the sights closer to my natural eye line.

I'm by no means suggesting every rifle should have cast off! I'm saying if you are building for you, build what fits you.

You might make a "try stock" out of a couple pieces of plywood to play around and see what fits you.

[canadianml1]

If one shoots from the upper arm instead of the shoulder maybe some cast on would work better ?? My Kibler smr just naturally wants to sit on my upper arm and not the shoulder so that it is shot across the chest. The butt plate is just not tall enough to do otherwise.

For light calibers this seems to be a very comfortable way to shoot for me.

[WadePatton]

If one shoots from the upper arm instead of the shoulder maybe some cast on would work better ?? My Kibler smr just naturally wants to sit on my upper arm and not the shoulder so that it is shot across the chest. The butt plate is just not tall enough to do otherwise.

For light calibers this seems to be a very comfortable way to shoot for me.

Lots of factors I'd say, face shape/cheekpiece, manner of holding, all play into whether we have castoff/on or none.  I did make a try stock from 2x4's to get a feel for how much I wanted.  Of course we're mixing performance and historic notions here, but also there are no two folks exactly the same in personal dimensions, and various notions on "fitted" for generic fit of long arms.

[brokenhand]

Thank you all for your replies.  My current goal for my upcoming rifle build is to not leave a bunch of extra wood anywhere on it.  This will probably be easier said than done, I am sure.  I would like it to turn out thin and trim. I'm currently thinking that if I can get it like I want it, I probably don't need cast off.  Not completely made my mind up.

[Mike Brooks]

Cast off is highly over rated for rifles, but has some importance if you're a world class trap or skeet shooter. I don't bother with cast off with my ownn personal guns anymore.

[Bob McBride]

Crescent butt plate southern guns are mounted an inch cast which removes the need for it.