Author Topic: Swivel Lid Patchbox Rifle... What Can You Tell Me About It?  (Read 833 times)

Offline Tanselman

  • member 2
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1632
Swivel Lid Patchbox Rifle... What Can You Tell Me About It?
« on: October 05, 2024, 04:07:08 AM »
The full-stocked rifle below was picked up at a local auction today/Saturday. It was made somewhat as a "budget" gun or what can be called a "poor boy" in some locations. Its "patchbox" is a simple swivel-type sheet-brass lid with a small "catch" to stop it in place over the cavity. The rifle, while well-made, has no inlay work and lacks a nose cap and rear ramrod pipe. It was originally a flintlock based on the vent pick hole in the toe and a plugged front bolt hole seen on the back side. I've seen a couple of these rifles with the swivel-type patchbox lid, all look like Pennsylvania rifles to me, perhaps a low-cost gun that's a step up from an eastern "barn rifle." The guard and butt plate are nicely filed, the single trigger is well-shaped with a scrolled tip, and the stock, while very plain maple, has a pleasing architecture.

The barrel is original length at 44-1/2 inches with a .50 caliber bore, 7-groove "round bottom" rifling, and attached with wedges. Since my area of focus is southern guns, particularly those from Kentucky... and Tansel powder horns... I'm needing a little help identifying this rifle... with no marks on the barrel. If you've seen this style rifle before, or know about them, I'd appreciate hearing from you and your thoughts.

The comb in profile almost looks like it has been lowered slightly toward the front, or wrist, but when you handle the gun and look down from the top, it has clean lines and looks all original, so not sure if anything has been done there or not.

Shelby Gallien
   









« Last Edit: October 05, 2024, 04:14:32 AM by Tanselman »

Offline Shreckmeister

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3808
  • GGGG Grandpa Schrecengost Gunsmith/Miller
Re: Swivel Lid Patchbox Rifle... What Can You Tell Me About It?
« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2024, 01:41:12 PM »
Common style box to the Pittsburgh area.   Thomas Allison and Fleeger used them. I have one by Andrew Joy. The catch is the done the same way.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2024, 01:45:22 PM by Shreckmeister »
Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.

Offline cshirsch

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 340
Re: Swivel Lid Patchbox Rifle... What Can You Tell Me About It?
« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2024, 03:11:30 PM »
W. Foster, North Liberty PA.  Near Pittsburgh






Offline Tanselman

  • member 2
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1632
Re: Swivel Lid Patchbox Rifle... What Can You Tell Me About It?
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2024, 08:19:43 PM »
Thanks for the responses. Not a great rifle, but I liked its original length barrel and old finish... plus I had nothing else to do this past Saturday, other than annoy my wife by taking her to another gun auction! I'm guessing my rifle is a little older than the W. Foster rifle posted, since I have a single trigger, and the gun originally had two lock bolts.

Shelby Gallien

Offline tooguns

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 147
  • I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees
Re: Swivel Lid Patchbox Rifle... What Can You Tell Me About It?
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2024, 05:25:25 PM »
Now the main questions are answered, Has this stock been refinished? I know it was stated the finish was old. The lack of defined lockpanels is why I ask, and the wrist looks thick, like other parts were slimed down making the wrist look heavy. Thanks for sharing!
It is best to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open one's mouth and remove any and all doubt....

Offline Tanselman

  • member 2
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1632
Re: Swivel Lid Patchbox Rifle... What Can You Tell Me About It?
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2024, 08:16:05 PM »
The stock's finish looks old and original to me. As mentioned, the comb looks like it may have been lowered/shortened toward the front, but if so, it was done so long ago that it blends in perfectly with the wrist wood in smoothness, finish and color. Looking down at the butt from above, it appears all original, but looking in profile, the comb's nose looks slightly shortened. Someone replaced wood above the lock plate, but that piece was a "budget" job and stands out. 

Shelby Gallien
« Last Edit: October 08, 2024, 11:36:46 PM by Tanselman »

Offline tooguns

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 147
  • I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees
Re: Swivel Lid Patchbox Rifle... What Can You Tell Me About It?
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2024, 10:15:37 PM »
Thank you!
It is best to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open one's mouth and remove any and all doubt....

Offline Shreckmeister

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3808
  • GGGG Grandpa Schrecengost Gunsmith/Miller
Re: Swivel Lid Patchbox Rifle... What Can You Tell Me About It?
« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2024, 10:35:28 PM »
Andrew Joy, Pittsburgh and Kittanning, PA






Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.