Question on flint cock styles

[far55]

I have a small late flint plate casting similar to the L&R Manton that I got off Reeves Goehring's table at Dixon's a few years ago. I also have the internals from a small Siler I thought about using with it, but I am not sure of the difference between a German and English cock for this late style. I picked up a small breasted cock at the same time, but I am not thrilled with it (not substantial enough) or the double throated style of this era, -- too military looking for my taste. Is the small Siler cock too out of place to modify, if needed, on the English style plate ? It is the right throw, about 1-1/4" Looking for 1820--1830 time frame. I have been looking through my books at originals, but there have been so many reconverted to flint that I would not know if the parts used were appropriate or not.  I know.... Buy a new Manton and save the hassle, but I have not done much lock work and look at this as a learning experiance for future projects.  I have a lathe and milling machine. so I am not totally in the dark on this. Any comments or suggestions appreciated,   Thank you, Roland

[rich pierce]

Can we see the lockplate?

[far55]

Sorry, I should have put this in the 1st post.  Roland

[B.Barker]

An old Cochran(I think that's the right spelling) flint cock may work or one of Kibler's new late Ketlands may work also.

[J. Talbert]

I would guess that either or both the Chambers late Ketland cock or the L&R Manton cock may work.

Just guessing,

Jeff

[Clint]

I would think that the small  Siler flint cock would work. Leave the Top curve under the lower jaw as high as possible and reduce the diameter around the square hole. The biggest challenge is in the "thumb piece". On early locks the little curl rolls forward and later flint cocks have an abreviated curl towards the rear. Cut and weld would be my choice. The Siler tumbler and sear should fall into the lockplate pretty easily, just remember to keep the sear screw near the middle of the plate so the lift arm doesn't trail off below the plate.
If you think you may have trouble with the geometry, drill and tap your parts to a scrap piece of 1/8" steel and usr that as a drill guide.

[far55]

Chambers late Ketland has a throw distance of 1.375 which will put the initial contact point up on the tapered portion of the frizzen near the top. That extra 1/8" may be too tall to look right. I will pull one off of my current build and check it closer.  I like the cut and weld on the small Siler idea. I will try to find a picture of the Cochran  lock. Question on mixing parts from different makers : will the shaft hole still orient the same, or will I likely need to weld it up and recut I guess what I am asking is there a standard tumbler shaft position ?  Thanks for the suggestions, Roland

[Craig Wilcox]

Roland, Clint posited that the thumb curl (at the top of the cock) is kinda backwards, curling forward rather than aft.
If you can weld, or have someone weld for you, it should be a fairly easy task to use your jewelers saw with a fine blade to cut the top 1/2 to 3/8" off, reverse it, and weld it back on.  A little bit of file work and polishing the piece will probably help.
Having used both types, I must admit that having the curl face aft seems to be gentler on your digits.
Let us know how this project goes, as I think many of us would want to do things to make our rifles and fowlers do just a little bit better, a little bit smoother.