Were York Co Gunsmiths the Best?

[Top Jaw]

I put this under gun building because it’s more of a subjective question among builders.

As I looked through a lot of my books, it seems like the highest quality rifles overall were made in York County Pennsylvania. Naturally there are others from other places that are equal or better, but I’m talking about per capita, the York county area seems to have had an abundance of high level builders.  More than Lancaster in my opinion.   And I’m not talking necessarily about the style of guns being better, although I do like York Co rifles. I’m talking about the level of skilled craftsmanship among the builders in that spot.

So assuming we agree - why do you think there were such a wealth of talent in this county? Was it a better apprenticeship system? Overcrowding of Lancaster and better land there for new Smiths to migrate to? I know this is something we will probably never resolve here, but I’m curious as to your thoughts.

[Dave B]

Talent breeds talent is maybe a part of it. The master being able to communicate his knowledge
 and skill to the raw talent of the apprentice. In some cases the skill of the apprentice may exceed that of the master if given the opportunity to see others work. Who knows maybe they had their  own version of ALR at that time.

[Tim Ault]

It was Lancaster Co till 1749

[smylee grouch]

I'm wondering if that could be measurable.

[Top Jaw]

Maybe difficult to measure equally, but among surviving guns in print, York seems to have had an abundance of talented rifle smiths.   I also say this because when I list out my own top 10 golden age builders (by talent) about half were from York Co. 

I do agree that talent and competition lift the level of expectations and the level of quality work being done. 

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Remember that we're judging rifle quality on the longrifles that are extant.  I submit that thousands of them have been lost to time and history, and we have no idea what they might have looked like.  So when you qualify a group of work, you must say, "of those that remain, these are the best or least".

[rich pierce]

I’m thinking you’re focusing on Golden Age rifles. If we look at regions as teams, yes, York county was a powerhouse. There seems to have been a little less “sticking to a pattern” than in some other areas.

[smart dog]

Hi,
Yes, I think the area around York had an number of great "golden age" makers.  It would be fascinating to devise a pedigree, master-journeyman-apprentice. 

dave 

[donal_h]

It was Lancaster Co till 1749

I think this is pretty key. It was the right place at the right time, just like like with St Louis and the Hawken.

[Joe S.]

I think a rifle that did what it was supposed to do back then was the best made rifle.Pretty sure a lot of what survives today where today's equivalent to safe queens.

[smart dog]

I think a rifle that did what it was supposed to do back then was the best made rifle.Pretty sure a lot of what survives today where today's equivalent to safe queens.

So why to so many well decorated originals show lots of wear on the frizzens and many were converted to percussion?  No reason to convert unless the gun was useful.

dave

[JTR]

I think a rifle that did what it was supposed to do back then was the best made rifle.Pretty sure a lot of what survives today where today's equivalent to safe queens.

Consider than many of the great guns were beat to $#*! when found, and look better today than then,,,,,
John

[Eric Kettenburg]

Around?

[Eric Kettenburg]

I guess nothings gonna ever keep them down!

[S-SFlint]

   One consideration is the influence of Jacob Dickert. Success on that scale often has side effects. As Lancaster became more of a rifle factory of the Dickert pattern during and after the War of Independence, there would have been an artistic response to that type of rifle making. Often it is the most skilled craftsmen who dislike working to someone else's pattern and seek out opportunities to work on their own.
   York, situated across the Susquehanna, but offering access to many of the same suppliers and markets as Lancaster, would have been attractive to men who often had ties to the trade in Lancaster City. The Golden Age York rifle is an example of quality and artistry living on the edge of a mature industry that's starting to peak, and will eventually decline (in Lancaster's case into the Lehman rifles).

[Top Jaw]

Interesting thoughts. So since the supply infrastructure was already in Lancaster County and York was nearby, maybe it rode the wave of a real estate boom for small cottage industries, including rifle smiths  after the Revolution.  Maybe even a little bit of an “artists (or artisan) colony” type of area in some aspects.  Talent attracting more talent.  And more talent creating synergy.  And a primo developing area gives rise to a new primo gun making spot.   Location, location, location. 😀. Probably played a part.

[donal_h]

If you consider that the Continental Congress was in the city of York for a time in 1777, then you have to figure that it a thriving period of time for the county. It would have a good influx of cash, lots of people and goods traffic, and proximity to Lancaster. It really seems to support S-SFlint's thoughts.

I wish I had paid more attention to York County history when I was in school.