Interesting how much difference a lube makes on accuracy

[rnnhntr]

I have a .62-caliber Virginia Rifle that is extremely finicky about patch lubes. With Bore Butter or Mink Oil it shoots about 6-inch 5-shot groups at 50 yards. With some old Lehigh Valley Lube it shoots about 1-1/2-inch 5-shot groups at 50-yards. This is without cleaning or wiping between shots, just load and shoot. Now I am on a quest for a lube that will equal the Lehigh.

[Robby]

I use mink oil for hunting and testing out my hunting loads. It is a good lube and I do notice a difference from my usual range lube. I would drop my load down 5gr.'s and see what happens.
Robby

[moleeyes36]

I have a .62-caliber Virginia Rifle that is extremely finicky about patch lubes. With Bore Butter or Mink Oil it shoots about 6-inch 5-shot groups at 50 yards. With some old Lehigh Valley Lube it shoots about 1-1/2-inch 5-shot groups at 50-yards. This is without cleaning or wiping between shots, just load and shoot. Now I am on a quest for a lube that will equal the Lehigh.

If you're looking for a commercially available product similar to Lehigh Valley Lube, you might try Mr. Flintlock Lube (if you can find it) or Shenandoah Valley available from MidwayUSA.

Don Richards

[Semisane]

I know you're going to say I'm crazy and that petroleum products are a no-no (not true in this case). But do yourself a favor and give Liquid Wrench a try. It's all I've used for the last 10+ years.

Benefits; (1) It gives me the best accuracy in all of my guns from .32 to .58 caliber, (2) no rust worries if you don't fully clean the bore for two or three day after a shoot if you run a wet LW patch down the bore after the last shot.

[recurve]

yup went to 100 % tallow and got much better groups vs a combo of 1/4wax+1/4 bees wax +2/4 tallow or spit . But I found to heavy a lube (tallow ) also is not great

[Daryl]

Semisane - you have mentioned Liquid Wrench before & I have always intended to give it a whirl, but
just never got around tu-it.
I am assuming you don't have to wipe the bore between shots, or ever, while shooting.

As to Mink Oil and Bore Butter not shooting well with a "given" load,  rnnhntr, but LHV shooting well, try reducing the load
by 5 or 10 grs. with the less slippery loads. I found this myself, when using LHV, I had to increase the load by 10gr.  to get the
 same "good" accuracy I was getting with less slippery lubes.
Thus, if the LHV is shooting well with a given load, it is possible the other lubes will shoot better with slightly less powder.  6" groups at
50 yards are smoothbore groups, or worse (according to many guys here). That's about what my smoothbore does, with the odd flyer
thrown in that doesn't hit the paper.

[hanshi]

I've used a lot of different lubes but can no longer shoot well enough to tell small accuracy differences.  Hoppes #9 BP Lube has always delivered really fine accuracy and mink oil, which I use in the bush, also does extremely well.  I haven't used Bore Butter in decades and it never gave particularly good results.  Unlike mink oil the BB made a 3rd, sometimes even a 2nd reload impossible without wiping the bore.  Using mink oil and Hoppes eliminates the need for wiping in MY guns.  Not only that but it left way too much gunk behind.

[Maven]

semi sane, And it comes in a convenient  HC container too (LOL) just like the one I got for FFFFg powder from Chuck Dixon!

[Daryl]

I've heard that on more than one occasion, Hanshi, and in another forum with someone certainly not new to shooting, but new to ML's.
His comment was after 6 shots, "WHAT IS THIS STUFF. It stays in the grooves, doesn't shoot out and makes it tighter and tighter loading.
Hot water won't melt it and I had to use break-cleaner to clean it out".

I only used it once, many years ago but I don't remember it building up. Perhaps that happens with lest than super tight loads, or if used as a bullet lube?
I got less than stellar results and mixed the rest of what I had with other 'stuff' testing lubes for bullets. The results did not please me.
I think that is what the fellow I spoke of, was using it for, lubing grease groove bullets.

It appears to not mix with and soften BP fouling and acts more like a petroleum oil or grease, than a BP bullet or patch lube. I didn't find that in my tests,
however I didn't shoot very much of it to forum that opinion. It just didn't shoot very well.

For hunting, it's Neetsfoot Oil or Track's Mink Oil for me.

[Mad Monk]

I know you're going to say I'm crazy and that petroleum products are a no-no (not true in this case). But do yourself a favor and give Liquid Wrench a try. It's all I've used for the last 10+ years.

Benefits; (1) It gives me the best accuracy in all of my guns from .32 to .58 caliber, (2) no rust worries if you don't fully clean the bore for two or three day after a shoot if you run a wet LW patch down the bore after the last shot.

You are not crazy.  The solvent in liquid wrench is a petroleum product but it is a solvent that won't form asphalt films in the bore.  The concern about petroleum products in the bore involves only petroleum lube oils and greases where they add to the oil to stiffen it into a grease.  Petroleum waxes such as paraffin and microcrystaline do not form asphalt films in the bore.  Ox-Joke had picked up on my work in the bore asphalting problems and twisted the information to hustle their Wonder Lube back around 1984 or 1985.

[tim crowe]

Cant get around the smell of LW .

[Sharpsman]

Spit! Three shots....75 yards...no wipe!

.54 Hawken Flintlock by Sharps Man, on Flickr

[Daryl]

2 shots from my 14 bore rifle, off the bags at 100 meters, checking the sights. The small holes are from my friend's
modern rifle off the bags with a scope. I asked him if I could use his target and he said, "go ahead, if you can hit it with that thing".
Pretty sure it was likely mink oil for lube, but could have been Neetsfoot Oil, though.  This rifle doesn't care (doesn't give much never- mind)
what lube is used.
Choose a lube & patch/ball combo that gives good clean,  no wiping shooting, then adjust the powder charge to get the accuracy you need.

[P.Bigham]

Nice shooting Daryl. Would of liked to seen the look on your friends face when he seen the target.

[Daryl]

He didn't even look through the spotting scope until I had fired the second shot. WHAT?

[David R. Pennington]

I can get no better groups with anything I’ve ever tried than spit. Trouble is it freezes in this kind of weather so I use bear oil with just about as good results, that’s for hunting too.

[little joe]

I can get no better groups with anything I’ve ever tried than spit. Trouble is it freezes in this kind of weather so I use bear oil with just about as good results, that’s for hunting too.

  Same here

[Daryl]

Spit shoots as well as anything, indeed. For temps right close to 0(32F), spit works just fine for target shooting.
We used to shoot down to -20C (-4F) and up to only -5 (23F) and for that, we developed the winter windshield washer fluid + a bit of Neetsfoot Oil
as the lube to solve the freezing trouble. The oil was only to provide some lubricant (needed or not) and to reduce evapouration in the summer time.
Mixing up large batches saw a full year's shooting from a gallon of WWWF, winter and summer. Shake before pouring onto the pre-cut patches.

[Scota4570]

I only shoot targets right now.  I have noticed that really slick lubes, like lanolin, do not shoot as accurately as water based stuff like 20% MOS or GI bore cleaner.   It may be that a little more drag on the patch promotes more consistent pressure and velocity. 

[Daryl]

I agree with your premise on the burn/rate/drag, etc.
I found with slippery lubes, I had to increase the powder charge in the .40 and .45, by 10gr. to get the same accuracy.
This incrrased powder charge, due to the reduced drag and increased power charge, also increased the velocity quite substantially.
I haven't tried lanolin, but was using a water based as opposed to Lehighvalley lube. The Lehigh required the extra 10gr. of powder.
Interestingly enough, the LHValley lube, with it's accuracy load in the GM .45 (60" twist) and Goodoien .40 (48" twist) were producing
almost exactly the same velocity - approx. 2,240 fps in both rifles.
The .45 required 10gr. MORE powder than the .40, with both lube types.