Author Topic: Need Help with Bird ID (Read 1989 times)

mountainman · « **on:** February 08, 2021, 06:35:34 AM »

Anybody have an idea of what this bird represent with the leaves in it's beak?

I seen it on 2 different fowlers engraved on top of their buttplates.

Old Salt · « **Reply #1 on:** February 08, 2021, 07:20:05 AM »

It looks like the a phenoix to me .

Old Salt

Jerry V Lape · « **Reply #2 on:** February 08, 2021, 08:53:24 AM »

Could it be the Distel Fink used in PA Dutch folk art?

Lucky R A · « **Reply #3 on:** February 08, 2021, 02:25:25 PM »

Likely a Phoenix. It appears to be rising from a armor helmet, Probably some heraldic significance. Since this is likely an European engraved buttplate it would eliminate any PA Dutch motif.. Ron

smart dog · « **Reply #4 on:** February 08, 2021, 03:14:38 PM »

Hi,
It could also be a dove with an olive branch. Most engravers in the 17th and 18th centuries drew animals very poorly and it is often really hard to even identify what they are.

dave

borderdogs · « **Reply #5 on:** February 08, 2021, 04:22:43 PM »

I think the bird looks similar to the bird on my family crest.
Rob

GANGGREEN · « **Reply #6 on:** February 08, 2021, 04:48:58 PM »

I presumed it was a Distelfink as well.

rich pierce · « **Reply #7 on:** February 08, 2021, 05:35:13 PM »

This is a motif on imported Dutch furniture, seen on some Hudson Valley fowlers. Seems unlikely to be related to what are called Pennsylvania Dutch motifs, other than being a bird.

Mark Elliott · « **Reply #8 on:** February 08, 2021, 06:21:58 PM »

I think it was supposed to be a dove although it looks like a phoenix.

mountainman · « **Reply #9 on:** February 08, 2021, 07:48:29 PM »

Interesting!!!! Since a customer asked me to engrave this bird on the fowler that I'm working on, My first thought was maybe an eagle, or a peacock, but I got to thinking something is different, and I would like to believe what Smartdog suggested a dove with olives leaves, but then others have mentioned it being a Phoenix, and I'm like what is a Phoenix?? So i googled it, and here is the result. shttps://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FPhoenix_(mythology)&psig=AOvVaw28M5uD5ZkcO4Uv7UZT8R5s&ust=1612887861825000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CA0QjhxqFwoTCJDA_fDZ2u4CFQAAAAAdAAAAABA
With that tuft on the back of its head and the outspread wings , with a ball of flames below its feet or at it; would seem more likely.
I still learn everyday, and my options are still open..

mountainman · « **Reply #10 on:** February 08, 2021, 07:55:14 PM »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_(mythology)

D. Taylor Sapergia · « **Reply #11 on:** February 08, 2021, 07:57:45 PM »

I showed it to my wife who is a "birder", and she said it was definitely a pheonix. My opinion also.

mountainman · « **Reply #12 on:** February 08, 2021, 07:58:54 PM »

I'm not sure if i did the right thing trying to share a link?

flinchrocket · « **Reply #13 on:** February 08, 2021, 10:31:15 PM »

I looked at several illustrations of the Phoenix,none had anything in their mouth. I tend to agree with Mark that it is supposed to be a dove.

Daryl · « **Reply #14 on:** February 08, 2021, 11:08:06 PM »

I'd like to agree with the dove, however the crested head and perhaps the raised, longer narrower wings say otherwise.

Mike Brooks · « **Reply #15 on:** February 08, 2021, 11:14:53 PM »

Commonly found on Hudson Valley fowling guns that were engraved in the colonies. What it is i don't know.

mountainman · « **Reply #16 on:** February 09, 2021, 03:16:29 AM »

I mentioned something to my wife about that bird being a phoenix, and she said that's how Phoenix, Az was named after that bird, I guess my education was a little behind

then I googled it, sure enough!!

elkhart · « **Reply #17 on:** February 10, 2021, 03:03:22 PM »

I would say a dove. The dove with an olive branch representing peace, the helmet representing war. Similar to our eagle holding arrows and an olive branch.

smart dog · « **Reply #18 on:** February 10, 2021, 03:14:33 PM »

Hi,
As I wrote previously, most engravers at that time drew animals very poorly. Think of all the "eagles" on long rifle patch boxes and cheek inlays that look just like that bird. They sometimes look like skinny geese with talons. I think the significant identifier is that it has a branch in its mouth.

dave

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Author Topic: Need Help with Bird ID (Read 1989 times)