A gift from a Kentucky wall

[JPK]

A house that was being torn down yielded this relic. I feel it's a attempt to built from a collection of old parts done long ago. The 40 calibre 39 3/4" barrel has a slight swamp and at one time had soldered on rib. The toe plate is rather fancy and appears to have a hole for a patch box release.  I could fine no markings as yet. Opinions welcome.
IMG_0713 by Oliver Sudden, on Flickr
IMG_0714 by Oliver Sudden, on Flickr
IMG_0715 by Oliver Sudden, on Flickr

[BOB HILL]

I have no idea why it was in the wall. I had a gentleman bring two guns from near Raliegh and ask me to clean them up. His son was renovating an old building for a restaurant.  The two guns, a civil war musket and a fowling piece, were found when they tore a wall out. The ramrods had been removed and found somewhere else. One had already been hauled off with debris when they found the guns and realized what they were. The guns were going to be displayed in the restaurant when it opened. I don’t know if they were or not.  Every time I hear reference to wall guns this incident comes to mind. Thanks for posting this find and bringing back an old memory.
Bob

[tooguns]

Does the stock have lock bolt holes? Is it an unfinished project? Anyway it's really cool, thanks for sharing!

[Mike Brooks]

All I ever found in a wall was an ashtray with a butt in it and .02 cents.

[JPK]

There’s no bolts or screws to hold a lock in but the mortise is cut out completely. The inletting and shaping over all is well done and there appears to be some cap and flame damage to the wood near where the hammer would be. The barrel had a wad of cloth and a splinter of wood trapped in it about 18” from the muzzle.
IMG_0716 by Oliver Sudden, on Flickr
IMG_0718 by Oliver Sudden, on Flickr
IMG_0722 by Oliver Sudden, on Flickr

[Tanselman]

The gun looks like it might be an old restock that never quite got finished. But the fine pewter cast nose cap shows that the "maker" had talent, as does the generally well-shaped stock. These "slightly odd" rifles are hard to place. I have never seen that nose cap on a gun I knew was from KY, but there's always a first. The long, two bolt tang is a KY feature, as is the thinness of the butt stock. However, the slight "fish belly" in the lower butt line is not a KY feature... except for a very few makers such as David Estill in Fleming Co. and late J.C. Short rifles. And the rather "clunky" triggers don't look right for a KY gun.

I think the lack of lock bolt holes/hole, and no other mounting holes visible in the lock mortise, suggests this was a work-in-progress, probably with some parts from older rifles such as the guard, and a toe plate style which is out of place on a late rifle like this one. One question, what is the stock wood? It doesn't exactly look like plain maple, but perhaps it is.  Shelby Gallien

[Hungry Horse]

 One of my high school buddies was the son of a life long re-model carpenter. Most of the houses he remodeled were Victorian era, but rarely Victorians. He found an amazing amount of long lost stuff in the walls of these old houses. Some seemed to have been stored in the attic, and at some point dropped into the uncapped top of the un- fireblocked  walls, allowing them to fall all the way to the bottom floor. He found an old worn out percussion shotgun in the wall of an old ice house, and a pair of iron framed pistols repurposed as sash waits.
 Another friend stopped to examine a spiral staircase standing in the rubble of an old Victorian being dismantled in San Jose California. On the back side of the staircase there was a wall with a couple of boards removed. He looked in and saw the muzzle of an octagon barrel, and carefully fished it out. It was a much used, and abused, Henry Deringer rifle. Upon getting it home, and cleaning it up, he found the owners name spelled out in little divots just ahead of the triggerguard T.J. Hall a well know guide during the early days of California.

 Hungry Horse

[JPK]

It’s walnut I believe, too open grain for maple or cherry. The triggers are fairly well made internally and still work.

[wabeek]

Hungry Horse,  VERY. GOOD TALE!!!

[Dietle]

Awesome. A friend of my college room mate found a gun in a wall during a renovation in Pittsburgh in the 1970s.

[jbigley]

One of my high school buddies was the son of a life long re-model carpenter. Most of the houses he remodeled were Victorian era, but rarely Victorians. He found an amazing amount of long lost stuff in the walls of these old houses. Some seemed to have been stored in the attic, and at some point dropped into the uncapped top of the un- fireblocked  walls, allowing them to fall all the way to the bottom floor. He found an old worn out percussion shotgun in the wall of an old ice house, and a pair of iron framed pistols repurposed as sash waits.
 Another friend stopped to examine a spiral staircase standing in the rubble of an old Victorian being dismantled in San Jose California. On the back side of the staircase there was a wall with a couple of boards removed. He looked in and saw the muzzle of an octagon barrel, and carefully fished it out. It was a much used, and abused, Henry Deringer rifle. Upon getting it home, and cleaning it up, he found the owners name spelled out in little divots just ahead of the triggerguard T.J. Hall a well know guide during the early days of California.

 Hungry Horse

Cool! --JB

[Curt J]

Considering that everything else is finished, the lack of a hole for a lock bolt makes me wonder whether the lock was held in place by a wood screw through the lock itself. I have owned two original rifles that were made that way and still own one of them. I own a couple of guns that were found in walls, one a 10 gauge percussion double shotgun by J. Donn & Bro. Canton, Illinois, that was found in the wall of a house in Dubuque, Iowa.

Many years ago (about 50) i knew an old gentleman who had been an antique dealer before WWII, back when everything was worth nearly nothing. He used to clean out attics in exchange for the contents. He told me he once cleaned out a very full, floored attic in a large Victorian house near here. When he was all done, or thought he was, the lady told him that there were three old guns down inside an upstairs wall "get them out of there". He laid on the attic floor and reached down inside the wall and was able to pull up two percussion long rifles, The third gun was a percussion double shotgun. It was shorter of course, but he was able to get two fingers worked into the muzzles and pulled it up. When he got it out of the wall he realized that it was loaded, capped and cocked.

[Tanselman]

If the lock was held on with wood screws running in from the front, would there not be visible screw holes inside the lock mortise? When I blow up the picture of the front lock mortise, I can't see any other holes, other than the percussion lug hole in the barrel. I've seen a couple locks attached by bolts running in from the front that screw into the flat back of the breech plug just below the tang, but there is wood in that location here without any access hole for a front bolt. Maybe the lock was attached from the front, but it's sure hard to see evidence of it in the above photos. Shelby Gallien

[JPK]

I appreciate all the observations on this rifle. A few details I can offer, the building that it was recovered from was in Fulton Kentucky and I’m on the trail of the last family member that lived there. I’m the fourth person to have this piece and I’m not related. The lock mortise has relief cut in for where a main spring would be if the hammer was fully down. Around the edges there’s clear sign of a lock having been in place but I can’t see any screw holes or attachment method in the wood or breech. The wood is eroded as if from powder and cap and in all respects it would seem to of been a functional rifle till the bore got plugged with the broken wiping stick and attached cloth. The set triggers are only held in place be the trigger guard. A curious project for a winter of quarantine.

[chuck]

could there be something attached to the drum to hold the lock in??

[JTR]

I can't see any way the lock could have reasonably been held in place, so I'm thinking it is a rifle that was never finished for whatever reason.
Not sure of the reason why the side plate flat area looks like its been sanded recently?

If it were mine, I'd finish it up! 

John

[mountainman70]

I was thinking the same JTR. It would be a good candidate for a freshing up by bro Rich. Definatly a good winter project.
Ya might even get it done by green up and shoot it. Good luck with it. Great stories here . Best regards, Dave F