Slotterbeck Double Rifle w/scope

[Mark Elliott]

Hungry Horse asked me to post these photos of a Slotterbeck double rifle with scope.   I assume he will add some comments later.

[Levy]

Maybe this is a west coast setup for hunting sea otters?  James Levy

[Shreckmeister]

Love to see more details of the great scope.

[jdm]

That's interesting. I hope we get some more details.

[Hungry Horse]

 First off thanks a lot Mark for posting these pictures. The gun is about .45 cal, gain twist, Wart steel barreled, bullet shooter. The scope is maybe 4 power, but could be closer to 2 power, its hard to judge. The added buckhorn sights on top of the scope either are in case the scope clouds up, or maybe for snap shots, since the tube on this scope is very small. This gun no doubt was built sometime in the 1870’s since Charlie patented his first cartridge gun in 1880.
 I knew I had to have this gun if at all possible the minute I saw it. It must have shown on my face, because the seller immediately began adding degrees of difficulty to the purchase. He wouldn’t dicker at all, which I was kind of ready for, but he insisted that I buy two of his Slotterbecks to get the one I wanted. He was overpriced on the one I wasn’t particularly interested in, but a bit underpriced on the double. I weighed the possibilities ( for like 8 seconds) and bought them both. I don’t think I did too bad since he called me about three days later and offered to buy the double back for a grand more than I paid for it. The reason I can be so sure about exactly when Charlie patented his first cartridge gun is because the other gun is the first cartridge gun. It has a similar scope but with no added top sight, and different mounts.
 Oh, by the way, when these guns were made there were still a few grizzlies in California, and tule elk, and a lot of black bear, and no shortage of outlaws, so sea otters were probably pretty safe.

  Hungry Horse

[Hungry Horse]

 Oh one other thing about this gun. It’s the most muzzle heavy unbalanced gun I’ve ever handled with the possible exception of the second gun in this acquisition. The stocks on both of these guns would be considered petit by modern standards which only adds to the extremely poor balance. I am surprised that neither of these stocked crowbars have damaged stocks.
 I did get to examine an earlier Charles Slotterbeck rifle in the process of buy the two that were for sale. The other one was built while Charlie was working in San Francisco. This gun reflects the early evolution of Charlies work. Having lived in the Lake County nearly all my life, I’ve seen quite a few Slotterbeck rifles. With no exception all the guns I’ve examined that are marked Lakeport have iron mounts. One rifle that has been in a local family for many years has brass mounts, but from the first time I saw it, I suspected it was a restock. That suspicion has only been re-enforced by the viewing of a pristine  example of Charlies earlier work. The restocked rifle has the same barrel signature as the San Francisco made gun, and the same location. But its stock has no cheekpiece, and a very slender forearm, like Charlies Lakeport guns. I suspect the gun is either a very early switch to the new style, or Charlie restocked it in Lakeport. In any case Charlies signature wrist checkering in a recessed flowing panel is missing, being the only gun I’ve seen without it. My assumption is since it so closely matches the shape of Charlies Lakeport guns is Charlie restocked it, and probably had to keep the price down so he didn’t checker it.

  Hungry Horse

[Daryl]

VERY interesting rifle, indeed. I love the way the hammer noses curl over the fences.

[Hungry Horse]

Daryl, years ago I got a chance to examine and photograph one of the fancy  doubles with the gold wire metal inlay. As I scanned every inch of the gun, knowing full well that I might never get a chance to examine such a rare piece again, I noticed that the little oval checkered grips on the hammers didn’t quite match. It just didn’t make sense that a craftsman of this caliber would make such a mistake. So I pulled the left hammer back to the cocked position, and exposed the top half of the back of the hammer. There in all it glory was the finest repair I’ve ever seen. Obviously the hammer had been broken off in the slender neck portion sometime. Charlie had done a stepped forge weld to add a new hammer head, and part of the graceful neck to the old hammer base. He had then added the gold wire to the outside of the hammer. But obviously had a little trouble matching the oval, with the checkered center. The owner said he had never noticed the repair, and had never heard any family story about such a break, and subsequent repair.

  Hungry Horse

[mr. no gold]

A pretty fine rifle made in California by a master builder. Thank you for posting the photos and the description. The telescope is a very nice touch. Did Larry Shelton ever get to see this gun?
Dick

[Hungry Horse]

 Unfortunately no. Larry was a friend of mine, whom I met when he was snooping around Lake County in search of Slotterbecks, and other California made guns. We found a couple of nice Slotterbecks up here, and he  amassed a pretty impressive collection.
  Larry came up quite a few years ago with a gun show to display some of the Slotterbeck guns in his collection. The shining star was a scoped single barrel fully engraved rifle with nice wood, and I think some silver inlays. He had put a sign on it touting it as the most highly decorated Slotterbeck known to exist. I know now it was all a rouse to lure some dusty treasures out of the closet. And, it sure worked. I had been on the track of a real show stopper of a double that had been talked about for years, but not recently seen. As it worked out a neighbor of my parents called me one day and asked if he could pay me to build a percussion pistol kit his son had gotten him for Christmas. I said sure I’d build it, but he couldn’t pay me for it. So, I built the pistol, he was overjoyed, his son though Dad was a budding gunsmith, and I got an invitation to come by an see his Slotterbeck. You guessed it it was the beauty I’d been searching for. So, the day of the show, after seeing Larry’s sign, I went and asked to borrow the double long enough to rub Larry’s nose in it. The owner graciously agreed, and even provided the scruffiest old gun sleeve I’ve ever seen to carry it in. I got it into the show, and took it straight to Larry’s display. I took it behind his counter, and let him open it. In that moment we became best friends. Heck he never missed calling me on my birthday, and I got a Christmas card every year. But, I outsmarted myself, the owner died, and his son got it, and dropped out of sight. I caught up with him years later, but he had nothing to say about the Slotterbeck double.
 I sure miss those long bull sessions with Larry.

  Hungry Horse

[Avlrc]

Like that scope.

"He wouldn’t dicker at all, which I was kind of ready for, but he insisted that I buy two of his Slotterbecks to get the one I wanted."

That reminded me of Laban & his dealings with Jacob.  Jacob  paid for one, got another & had to work another 7 years for the one he wanted in the first place...

It least he did not gouge  you that bad. 

[Taylorz1]

That is a very nice double rifle Hungry Horse. You’re lucky to have the original scope. I will attach a picture of my Charles built double rifle. Has a lot of similar features to yours. Unfortunately mine is missing the scope. I’m also attaching a picture of one of my Charles built half stocks. I own two cartridge rifles as well built by Charles in Lakeport and a 74 sharps built by Henry in Los Angeles- the workmanship on all the Slotterbek guns I have seen has been outstanding even on plainer guns. Some of the sharps and rolling block sporting rifles that Henry built really got over the top with some of his eccentric Germanic embellishments. You can see some of that in this half stock. Hungry Horse- please keep me in mind should you be thinking about selling the other Slotterbek you had to buy to get this one. Best-

Zack

[Taylorz1]

One thing I forgot to mention – I will echo Hungry Horses comment about the sometimes odd stock geometry. My double rifle and one of my other half stocks are quite comfortable with more or less conventional dimensions but the halfstock pictured feels like it was built for someone 4’ tall and 100# with no neck. I always assumed that was related to the intended shooting style. Scopes of the period  had zero eye relief and  sat on tall mounts with shooters using a chin touch head erect position. One of my cartridge guns is unshootable unless you use this position. One more aside- my double rifle was loaded with a heavy load of old smokeless powder and a roundball in both barrels when I got it. Thankfully they never touched that load off !! As soon as I finish making the scope and mounts I will work on shooting and regulating this double and provide a range report.

Z

[Hungry Horse]

Zack, the checkering on your double suggests to me that it may be older than mine. The stock dimensions appear to be more robust than mine as well. These differences might reflect a change in stock architecture over time. The Slotterbeck guns I have examined here in Lake County for the most part are of the more diminutive sort.
 I did examine an earlier built Slotterbeck with the San Francisco barrel stamping that reflected the earlier checkering like your double, and a square eastern style cheek rest. There is also a locally owned San Francisco marked single barrel that I have always suspected was a “Charlie Lakeport restock” It has many S.F. Features, but the stock is the small slender style without  a cheek rest.
 I will keep you in mind if I decide to sell the cartridge gun. To be honest, I’m still trying to figure out what caliber it is.
 

[mr. no gold]

Well, looks like I totally missed the boat by staying down in SOCAL rather than living up there the north. All those great Slotters and Charles and Henry guns went to someone else. Traveling up in that area however, I saw only one great big heavily used NY gun, (unsigned) but fancy and it wasn't even for sale. I did see one Thompson of Portland rifle that was the best CA/plains rifle I have ever beheld and I couldn't afford it.
HH, I miss Larry too. Went to his home twice, once in Fair Oaks and the other time to his home above Folsom. My, my! He had a big collection. I bought two good guns from him and have been very happy with them. So, no more Great Western, no more Las Vegas and no more Larry. The world in not getting any better it seems.
Thanks for your photo sharing and your commentaries on the best of CA gun building.
Dick

[Hungry Horse]

 Dick there are more than a few Henry built guns up here also. I’m not exactly sure how they got here, but maybe Charley was selling them out of his shop as well as his own work. I also have a gun that was built by W.H. Brown who was a material witness for Henry Deringer in the Deringer vs. A.J.Plate counterfeit Deringer pistol trial that involved the Slotterbeck brothers. I also own a gun that the family I bought it from swear was made in Charley’s shop, but the barrel is signed by someone else. The gun is obviously a restock, but the stock, and hardware look very Slotterbeck, so who knows.

  Hungry Horse

[Taylorz1]

Thanks Hungry Horse for your comments and insights. Ive been drawn to the few Slotterbek built guns I have seen over the years. To be able to talk to the families that passed them down over the years and be in an area where some may still lurk in the brush is special. Wish I had known Larry as well. Everyone I know who knew him said he was a heck of a guy. I do have this big heavy bear gun from his collection. His notes on it were “made in portland by W Beck the first gunsmith in Portland.” It is a beast and about .60 cal. Wish I could have talked to him about it.

[Hungry Horse]

 The gun I mentioned that looked Slotterbeck, but was signed on the barrel by another gunsmith was signed by John Rogers of Elkhart Indiana. The curious thing about the signature is that the Elkhart Indiana portion is over stamped with John Rogers signature stamp. I would take this to imply that Rogers made the gun from one of his used barrels, but not in Indiana. Possibly he was working his way to Southern California and stopped at Charley’s shop long enough to stock up a rifle and sell it to get funds to move on. This gun has no cheek rest, a short “splinter” forearm, a single barrel key, no underrib, and a tiny poured nose cap, it also has the classic Charley iron triggerguard, and iron buttplate. A couple of interesting things that aren’t particularly Slotterbeck are It has an iron cap box mounted backwards, a slot cut in the bottom of the barrel( its 11/8”x 42” .36 caliber) for the barrel key ( instead of a dovetailed lug) and an elevation adjustable rear sight that is exactly like one I got from a collector that said it came off of a Joseph Craig rifle.
 It’s just one more collector mystery’s I’ll probably never sort out.

  Hungry Horse