Bottoming dies?

[Scota4570]

The dies I have been buying are all tapered on both side.  For some jobs that is not OK.  Does anyone sell dies that are tapered on one side only, like my old dies?

[Bob Roller]

The dies I have been buying are all tapered on both side.  For some jobs that is not OK.  Does anyone sell dies that are tapered on one side only, like my old dies?

It's been YEARS since I bought a die and I thought all were made with a tapered starting side.Do you have any hardware stores in your area that has been in business for a long time? A NAPA car parts store was another good source.
Bob Roller

[Tim Hamblen]

Might give McMaster Carr a look.

[Scota4570]

Not one tapered side,  Both. 

All the ones I am getting are tapered on both sides. 

I have resorted to the belt sander to take that off one side.  HSS steel cuts slow on the belt sander. 

Sometimes I want to thread up to a shoulder with a minimal relief cut.  A sear pivot screw is one situation. 

My local hardware store is ACE.  They have Hanson and they are non adjustable and tapered both sides.  Those are NC and NF which I have as old dies and they are good.  I am interested the special thread pitches used in most locks, 5-40, 6-40, and 8-40.  I have no idea why those were settled on as "standard" but they are why they are. 

Should I be using 6-32 and 8-32 for lock screws? 

[Bsharp]

MSCdirect.com has 44 series of dies. I have no idea what they all are.

Most of my adjustable are tapered on only one side.

[Fyrstyk]

TOW carries taps and dies of various sizes used in gunsmithing.

[Scota4570]

TOW carries taps and dies of various sizes used in gunsmithing.

Track, I see no dies, just taps. 
Brownells, no
Midway, no
Looks to me like dies that have taper on one side are thing of the past. 

The new china made ones are all double taper, the ones that I see anyway. 

So...make a couple of bottoming dies as  plates?  Could I skip the cutting flutes and just make a hardened threaded hole in a plate?  It would be used to complete the last four threads in leaded screw stock.  A swage die kind of thing?

[Jim Spray]

Look up Zero. They may have what you want. Tap America under cutting tools.

[Jim Spray]

Should be ZORO ! Dang spell check.

[Dphariss]

Make a screw plate with the tap you have  and use it to finish the threads. I would recommend using 0-1 tool steel. Just be sure to use a sharp drill bit, some lube and a positive feed to drill the hole. Tool steels can react badly to dull tools and/or slow feeds.

[Bob Roller]

Here is screwball idea 4211B.Harbor Freight sells a white 8" grinding wheel that really cuts.Get one and put it on the bench grinder with the white side out.It has a logo on one side that interferes with any side grinding.
The open side will quickly reduce the thickness of the threading die to whatever you need.Just hold it and move it over the side of the spinning wheel and cool as needed.
Bob Roller

[Jim Kibler]

The ones I’ve bought in the last few years have one side without a lead.  I’ve probably gotten them from McMaster Carr.  I would try them

[Steeltrap]

You could look at https://www.victornet.com/tools/Special-Thread-Taps/199.html

While I see some "common" gun thread sizes like 8-40, 6-48... they seem to miss the 10-32 and 6-40 common sizes.

I also see Flat Bottom Taps of various sizes, but I've not looked for specific gun tap sizes.

[Scota4570]

I have a message in to McMaster. 

I have a hair brained idea.  I am thinking I will try using a lathe, a collet and a diamond tool in a Dremel to take out the taper on one side of the die.  I have lashed Dremel to the tool post before to make a tool post grinder.  I do not need to flat off the whole die, just the middle. 

[Bsharp]

It is called a 4.1/2" angle grinder, using the die Holder in the chuck.

The die holder will give you a buffer and not cut into the chuck.

Just dish out the center.

[davec2]

I had the same trouble finding dies with no taper on one side.  Bought some high quality dies and took them to a local machine shop that had a surface grinder with a magnetic chuck.  Had them grind the appropriate amount off one side of the dies.  The shop put them all on the chuck at the same time and ground them all for me in a couple of passes.  Done.

[Bob Roller]

Blanchard grinder,used one a lot when working in a local shop that catered to the coal mining industry,
Bob Roller

[kutter]

If you have a Dremel or other hand held rotary type tool,,or a drill,,or a drill press,,,place one of the grinding stones available that you can just chuck in place.
Use a rough cutting stone. They cut cooler and faster. Not interested in looks. Just making the die(s) more usable.
Then free hand, or with the assistance of the drill press holding the bit for you,,grind the center portion of the die out so your 'to be threaded' stock can reach the die's teeth and thread all the way down.

It won't be pretty in many instances as most Dremel work is not! But it'll make quick work of it with a rough cut stone and get the excess material gone for you and the die usable for your needs.

[Long Ears]

Send them to me. I have a auto surface grinder and can fix them up for you. PM me if you are interested. Bob

[Clark Badgett]

I had the same trouble finding dies with no taper on one side.  Bought some high quality dies and took them to a local machine shop that had a surface grinder with a magnetic chuck.  Had them grind the appropriate amount off one side of the dies.  The shop put them all on the chuck at the same time and ground them all for me in a couple of passes.  Done.

This is the best and easiest solution.

[Scota4570]

I got my 5-40 die in the mail.  Yahoo, then disappointment.  Something seems to be missing.   



Drills and cutters.com by the way. 

I guess I'll put the prybar in the wallet and order from McCarr Master.  The prices are much, much more but I am tired of messing around. 

So, why am I not using common national fine thread pitches?  It sure would simplify the tooling and lessen expenses. 

Just a thought but why do lock companies use oddball threads?   6-40 and 8-40 for Siler locks, others use 5-40, why?  6-32NF is hardware store easy,  6-48 is common to gunsmiths, I have a taps, dies and quality screws already.  But 6-40 etc.  I makes no sense to me. 

Scot

[rich pierce]

I got my 5-40 die in the mail.  Yahoo, then disappointment.  Something seems to be missing.   



Drills and cutters.com by the way. 

I guess I'll put the prybar in the wallet and order from McCarr Master.  The prices are much, much more but I am tired of messing around. 

So, why am I not using common national fine thread pitches?  It sure would simplify the tooling and lessen expenses. 

Just a thought but why do lock companies use oddball threads?   6-40 and 8-40 for Siler locks, others use 5-40, why?  6-32NF is hardware store easy,  6-48 is common to gunsmiths, I have a taps, dies and quality screws already.  But 6-40 etc.  I makes no sense to me. 

Scot

6-32 is probably what Bud Siler had on hand, and the rest is history.