pattened breech problome

[ottawa]

My 13 year old son and I have been re working a old style production Kentucky rifle with a patten ed breech the nipple hole got buggered up when the breech was removed and put back on it a 1/4x28 nipple my son re-taped it to clean up the top so the nipple would go in it goes in nice but just keeps turning wont lock down is there another size larger nipple to try or should I make a hole new plug? you can tell the threads are in gaged but wont snug up going to try a new nipple to see if that works . and no throwing it out and buying a new costume kit is not an option

[rich pierce]

Dixie Gun Works used to sell oversized nipples.  Be careful.  You really don't want that thing flying out like a bullet when you fire the gun.

[JBlk]

You might get a metric threaded nipple.The metric tend to run just a little bigger so when you re- tap they take up the extra slack.I've never used this on a nipple but I have in mechanical work with success.

[David Veith]

I think Log Cabin sell over size to. Or they do touch holes
David Veith

[SR James]

Track of the Wolf sells oversize nipples and taps.

[T*O*F]

no throwing it out and buying a new custom kit is not an option

Sometimes we have to face the harsh reality of our own inexperiences in the face of safety.  There isn't always a safe easy fix and the project must be scrapped.  If the hole is too large, the only alternative might be to rebreach the gun.  The price of obtaining an education is often expensive.

We have all done it.

[caliber45]

I respectfully disagree with the "toss it" folks. Why throw out a perfectly good patented breech when simply re-threading it for an oversize nipple is a simple (and less costly) matter? I do agree with those, however, who say don't risk trying to shoot it without re-threading to an oversize diameter. Loose threads "holding" a potential missile isn't a good thing. Don't ask me how I know that . . . - paulallen

[J.D.]

I respectfully disagree with the "toss it" folks. Why throw out a perfectly good patented breech when simply re-threading it for an oversize nipple is a simple (and less costly) matter?

I have to question if the breech is perfectly good? Removing many production breeches can damage the threads to the point that they may become unsafe.

Moreover, IMHO, someone who damages the breech severely enough to require a significant repair, may not be the correct person to make those repairs.

I have to agree with TOF and Mr. Adams, on this one. I vote for replacement of the breech.

IMHO it is a really bad idea for a novice to make a repair that can literally backfire on them...or someone else, causing permanent injury or death.  Better to spend the extra bucks to fix it right, than try to save a few bucks cobbling parts together, in such a potentially dangerous area.

God bless

[caliber45]

J.D. -- You make an excellent point in your second paragraph. Perhaps I'm attributing more expertise to Ottawa than I should. So I'll rescind my advice and go along with you other gents: replace the patent breech. Need to realize when I'm wrong. - paulallen

[Steve-In]

I agree the skill level is in question but the advice to go with an over size nipple is equally bad.  Either the post was not read or responders also should have their skill level questioned.  Oversize nipples are for slightly worn threads, not stripped threads.  Since a 1/4-28 rotates, the hole now is about .250 diameter or just a little less.  That would require a .288-28 tap.  Track's set only goes to .275.  Since they will probably do the repair anyhow a better nipple is the 5/16-24.  Tap drill is a letter "I" drill, .272 diameter.  No danger of someone putting a standard 1/4-28 in it. 
"You might get a metric threaded nipple.The metric tend to run just a little bigger so when you re- tap they take up the extra slack.I've never used this on a nipple but I have in mechanical work with success."   As for the metric nipples M6x.75 isn't even close.  6mm being dia .236. 
My point is that you do not need to reply to every post and subjects like this should require some thought.

[caliber45]

Steve -- This is getting wearisome, and I'm sure it's irritating the $#@* out of most folks. So this is my last post on it, in my own defense: When I suggested (and later rescinded) an "oversize" nipple, I didn't specify a "slightly" oversized nipple -- but a realistic oversized nipple -- such as you did. Enough. Enjoy the silence, folks. I'll shut up. -- paulallen

[Dphariss]

My 13 year old son and I have been re working a old style production Kentucky rifle with a patten ed breech the nipple hole got buggered up when the breech was removed and put back on it a 1/4x28 nipple my son re-taped it to clean up the top so the nipple would go in it goes in nice but just keeps turning wont lock down is there another size larger nipple to try or should I make a hole new plug? you can tell the threads are in gaged but wont snug up going to try a new nipple to see if that works . and no throwing it out and buying a new costume kit is not an option

There are several ways to fix this.
You could retap to musket size, 5/16"-24 and then get a musket thread nipple  for #11. TOW has them in various alloys. Need 2 taps a taper and a bottoming. I would get H1 tolerance taps from MSCdirect.
If the hole is too oversized to retap then bore and retap to a larger thread like 3/8. Then make a thread in plug with a flash hole through the middle to intersect the flash channel. Coat with paste type high temp silver solder and screw it in, remove to check silver solder is in all the threads and recoat. Clean up the exterior paste then heat to fuse the silver solder.
Drill and tap just deep enough for a new 1/4-28 nipple. Fixed.
Have the hole welded up and redrill and tap.
Some of this may cost more than a new breech though.
Dan

[ottawa]

took breech off today  hole is way to big to try too re tap to any size dont feel enough metal would be left the breech is a 16mm with a 1.25pitch as far as pattened beeches I have never worked with them have replaced many broken drums  so I will prob go with a new breech .
now to find one surfs up