Author Topic: Is this a NC or TN rifle? - UPDATE one more  (Read 1954 times)

Offline AZshot

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Is this a NC or TN rifle? - UPDATE one more
« on: June 22, 2021, 12:54:06 AM »
Hi, I'm on my genealogical tour of the Appalachians and met with my cousin.  His family has had this old rifle since the 1970s when his father bought it in Eastern NC.  To me, it looks modern, poorly kept.

I can see a few letters on the rear of the barrel in small letters.  Perhaps "Warranted" or "Patented..." I think H&R made some kind of like this in the 70s.  Hammer and nipple look modern.

It appears to be about 32 caliber.  It looks pretty recent, but I can't tell how old it is.  Can anyone tell me what this may be and the era?  He offered to give it to me, but want's to know what it is first. At first I thought it was late 20th century, not very desirable.  Am I right or wrong?!  Thanks.














« Last Edit: June 23, 2021, 01:08:33 AM by AZshot »

Offline Tanselman

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Re: Is this a NC or TN rifle?
« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2021, 02:57:48 AM »
It looks a lot like an H.E. Leman rifle from Lancaster, PA, mid-1840s or later. Seems like I can see his applied artificial striping above and to the left of the cheekpiece, a well-known Leman characteristic, and butt profile and hardware look like Leman products. Has a shortened barrel, cut at breech, based on how close to the breech the "Warranted" stamp is located. Original PA percussion rifle with some modifications.  Shelby Gallien
« Last Edit: June 22, 2021, 07:47:38 PM by Tanselman »

Offline mountainman70

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Re: Is this a NC or TN rifle?
« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2021, 03:48:58 AM »
Definitely worth having. Thanks for sharing. Best regards, Dave  8) 8)

Offline AZshot

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Re: Is this a NC or TN rifle?
« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2021, 02:57:31 PM »
Thanks for the fast identification!  It's funny but my cousin had it in a mountain cabin he lives in, for the past 25 years, and never noticed the writing.  His dad bought it for a decorator item back in the 70s in the Currituck area for probably $20.  Thanks again for the ID. 

Offline Cades Cove Fiddler

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Re: Is this a NC or TN rifle?
« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2021, 07:01:09 PM »
 8) 8)... Agree to H. LEMAN as the builder,.... I have seen several here in E. TN & W. NC .... guess they were most likely brought in by merchants in the late caplock period,... one I know of is in the family of a SW Virginia family,... along with a signed Gabriel McInturff Tennessee rifle,... very nice of your relative to gift this to you,... regards,... CCF

Offline AZshot

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Re: Is this a NC or TN rifle?
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2021, 01:02:30 AM »
Thanks, I actually told him to keep it, he lives here and it was his dads.  I can only bring back one, so I'm still looking.  Here is the second rifle that I may get.  Nose is messed up, looks like JB weld on it.  Price seems too high for what it is, but it seems to be nicer than the other.  Does this look like a TN rifle (as it's touted to be)? I like the triggers screw, don't like the drilled hole near then, nor the cut away wood at the back of the trigger guard.  About 35 caliber. 
















Offline AZshot

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Re: Is this a NC or TN rifle? - UPDATE one more
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2021, 01:12:44 AM »
Triggers work. 


Offline Tanselman

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Re: Is this a NC or TN rifle? - UPDATE one more
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2021, 07:27:35 AM »
It's difficult to tell with any accuracy where this rifle was made. The  iron guard probably suggests to some that it may have a TN origin, but the open mortise at the end of the guard's rear extension leaves open the possibility the current guard is not the original one on the rifle. The side facings around the lock area have a much longer, extended tail than I would expect on a TN rifle, and the slight curvature at the tip of the rear "set" trigger suggests NC more than TN, but some TN rifles from the southern part of the state had more pronounced tips on their triggers. The cheekpiece doesn't look like a typical TN cheek, and the butt plate almost looks like a modern steel replacement, not a hand forged iron original butt plate. The bottom of the stock below the lock area is rather flat, which is often a TN detail. So you have a mixed bag here... could be TN, but from what I can see, not a typical TN rifle, and somewhat of a guess.  Shelby Gallien

Offline AZshot

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Re: Is this a NC or TN rifle? - UPDATE one more
« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2021, 02:04:13 PM »
Thanks to all.

Offline Eric Krewson

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Re: Is this a NC or TN rifle? - UPDATE one more
« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2021, 05:44:05 PM »
Looks like a parts build to me, original lock but the overall workmanship raises a few red flags. I suspect the hole in the lock plate was a miss and where the tang bolt should have or might have gone. The drum appears to be drilled at an angle, all the breaks in the stock show the rifle led a rough life. I suspect a modern build (60s-70s) by someone who wasn't very skilled at gun building.

Offline Molly

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Re: Is this a NC or TN rifle? - UPDATE one more
« Reply #10 on: July 08, 2021, 05:09:16 AM »
Came here via a referral....

Photos 1 and 2 do NOT look like the drum is at an angle.  But yes, one later photo seems to look that way.  I will submit that the drum is not fitting tight and the screw is loose rather than the hole improperly drilled.

Offline AZshot

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Re: Is this a NC or TN rifle? - UPDATE one more
« Reply #11 on: July 08, 2021, 08:22:24 PM »
This one is probably still for sale, I passed on it too.  I'd rather get 1 good rifle, than 2 that are kind of ratty/uncertain.  But I learned a lot on my journey. 

Offline Molly

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Re: Is this a NC or TN rifle? - UPDATE one more
« Reply #12 on: July 08, 2021, 11:10:25 PM »
Leman, Leman, Leman....hummmm

What part of TN was he from? ::)

Offline AZshot

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Re: Is this a NC or TN rifle? - UPDATE one more
« Reply #13 on: July 09, 2021, 12:03:13 AM »
My cousin is near Clayton, GA.  I went through 4 states on this trip, drove over 2000 miles, saw a dozen rifles.