Author Topic: Drilling the Ramrod Hole First?  (Read 2814 times)

Offline Daniel Coats

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1399
Drilling the Ramrod Hole First?
« on: July 20, 2021, 09:28:56 AM »
I would like to start a conversation about the sequence of events. Is it better to drill the ramrod hole first when building from a blank? Pretty sure it's not HC but seems a good way to locate from the end of the ramrod hole before in-letting the barrel which can allow enough wood to not break into the lock area or barrel channel or bottom of the stock.
Dan

"Ain't no nipples on a man's rifle"

Offline Tim Crosby

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 18370
  • AKA TimBuckII
Re: Drilling the Ramrod Hole First?
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2021, 02:09:48 PM »
  This may help, Mark does a good job of laying out a build:

  https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=23449.msg224624#msg224624

  Tim

Offline James Rogers

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3161
  • James Rogers
    • Fowling Piece
Re: Drilling the Ramrod Hole First?
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2021, 02:25:05 PM »
I've never done it. Kit Ravenshear suggested it in his writings.  I believe Josh Wrightsman may use that procedure.

Offline smart dog

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7001
Re: Drilling the Ramrod Hole First?
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2021, 02:28:02 PM »
Hi,
It really won't matter if you draw good plans first.  Certainly, ramrod drills can migrate when drilling the hole but most of the difficulties of fitting components can be resolved simply by drawing out plans first. If you drill the ramrod, you also need to cut away the bottom of the forearm to the rear pipe unless you plan to drill the hole all the way down the stock so you are setting the bottom profile before fitting the barrel.  This could be a disaster in progress unless I you have good plans and measurements.     
dave
"The main accomplishment of modern economics is to make astrology look good."

Offline rich pierce

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 19477
Re: Drilling the Ramrod Hole First?
« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2021, 04:14:58 PM »
Tapered and flared barrels make the whole business complicated. I take a lot of measurements. I mount the underlugs and cut them to height. Then lay a long straightedge along the underlugs. This helps me understand how the ramrod groove and hole need to be. Drilled on last week that just touched the barrel at the breech. With a very large breech and fast taper it came out just fine. Still room for forward lock bolt. Ramrod channel and hole just skimming the underlugs.
Andover, Vermont

Offline Mike Brooks

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13415
    • Mike Brooks Gunmaker
Re: Drilling the Ramrod Hole First?
« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2021, 04:19:05 PM »
I always send my barrel and stock to Dave Rase first.
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline Cory Joe Stewart

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1862
    • My etsy shop
Re: Drilling the Ramrod Hole First?
« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2021, 09:40:21 PM »
Yeah Wrightsman does it that way on his Youtube channel.  Pretty neat idea, but not one I think I will adopt.

Cory Joe Stewart

Offline flehto

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3335
Re: Drilling the Ramrod Hole First?
« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2021, 12:32:24 AM »
After the first 4 blank builds, realized that doing  the bbl/RR work didn't teach me anything....so early on used Fred Miller and then Dave Rase for that work. Don't quite know {have an idea} how Dave achieves the specified webs, but he always came very close w/ a web of 1/16"at the breech and 5/32" at the muzzle. Thanks Dave.....Fred

Offline mikeyfirelock

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 451
  • Built 1st gun in dorm room at college
Re: Drilling the Ramrod Hole First?
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2021, 02:34:56 PM »
I drill ramrod hole after inletting the barrel, and determining the lower stock profile from measurements made from the top of the barrel.  My goal has always been to drill parallel to the center of the bore , so I use calipers to set the ramrod groove depth and that is my guide for drilling.  Depth is usually not a problem for me……….just keeping the hole centered is where I go afield.
Mike Mullins

Offline Daniel Coats

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1399
Re: Drilling the Ramrod Hole First?
« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2021, 04:00:00 PM »
I'm using the technique of laying out the stock profile shaping the lower forestock profile and then drilling the ramrod hole first. It's only the second time doing it this way for me but I am seeing a couple of problems. If I plan on inletting the barrel to match the ramrod then that can change the layout slightly and I may end up inletting the barrel to depth more than once.

We'll see how it goes but I think next time I will go back to inletting the barrel first and making it its location rock solid. My belief is that this will cause less shifting of the parts.

Of course my primary interest is hobby gunsmithing I'm not trying to do this for a living or make money at it. That being said I'm still keenly interested in doing things as cleanly and simply as possible which makes it more fun right? ;D
Dan

"Ain't no nipples on a man's rifle"

Offline mikeyfirelock

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 451
  • Built 1st gun in dorm room at college
Re: Drilling the Ramrod Hole First?
« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2021, 12:33:00 AM »
One of the reasons that I position the barrel first, and then drill the ramrod hole is that the position of several other pieces like the lock and thus trigger(s) will be determined in great measure by the barrel placement, and likewise the ramrods position may be determined by these parts……….and vice versa.   
By the way, what sort of ramrod drill does everyone use?  I have used single flute, and those with a twist drill welded/brazed to a rod.  Can’t see much difference as long as they’re straight ( and sharp.)
Mike Mullins

Offline Daniel Coats

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1399
Re: Drilling the Ramrod Hole First?
« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2021, 01:03:56 AM »
Here's one I made by riveting a drill bit to a 4 foot steel rod.




Nothing fancy going on but drills right where it's pointed.
Dan

"Ain't no nipples on a man's rifle"

Offline Bob Roller

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9680
Re: Drilling the Ramrod Hole First?
« Reply #12 on: July 22, 2021, 02:04:15 AM »
I am a firm advocate of the K-I-S-S ideas. Keep it stupidly Simple or Keep it simple,stupid ;D.
Bob Roller

Offline deepcreekdale

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 641
Re: Drilling the Ramrod Hole First?
« Reply #13 on: July 22, 2021, 04:19:56 AM »
I always inlet the barrel first then the RR hole. I have not had any problems with a drill wandering for many years and over a hundred stocks. The only secret is careful measuring, drawing ACCURATE lines and then remeasuring everything again. And then rechecking the lines and measurements again. I never drill until I am 100% sure I know exactly where the hole will end up. And yes, I learned that the hard way with a few ruined blanks. A big factor when drilling to prevent drill wandering is frequent and I mean frequent (every 1/4 inch or so) clearing of chips while drilling. If you think you can drill just a little bit more before clearing wood chips, you are asking for trouble. I used to get nervous about it, but now, just by drawing accurate layout lines and exercising diligence in checking everything, I don't give it a second thought. Anything is better than using a pre-carve with those horrible 1/4 inch think webs.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2021, 04:28:11 AM by deepcreekdale »
”Far and away the best prize that life has to offer is the chance to work hard at work worth doing.” Theodore Roosevelt

Offline Clint

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 330
Re: Drilling the Ramrod Hole First?
« Reply #14 on: July 22, 2021, 04:22:14 AM »
however you sequence the inlets-holes etc, don't forget to sharpen the drill with a whet stone and check the length of the cutting edges with a caliper. All of our cutting tools are very sharp and the ramrod drill also needs to be very sharp.

Offline Not English

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 594
Re: Drilling the Ramrod Hole First?
« Reply #15 on: July 22, 2021, 08:29:34 PM »
I run my blank through a planer and a jointer to make sure the top of the blank and the side are at a right angle. I then lay out the profile on the side of the blank with all important measurements noted and drawn along with a centerline on the top. Next, I take off half the barrel thickness off the top profile before inletting the barrel. After the barrel is inlet I then remove half the ramrod thickness from the bottom of the stock blank. Next the ramrod channel is laid out on the bottom of the forestock. After carving/routing the groove I make 3 or 4 flat wood guides that are clamped to the forestock bottom to keep the ramrod drill located properly. These need to be semi tight when the ramrod is inserted so the drill won't wander. I lube the drill with bar soap every time I clear the drill bit. At this point the blank is still full width - 10/4s". I do not start shaping until the barrel channel and ramrod hole are drilled. One other point, I have drilled exactly 1 ramrod hole with a brace and regretted it for a week after. Now it's strictly a hand power drill.

Dave

Offline Craig Wilcox

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2528
Re: Drilling the Ramrod Hole First?
« Reply #16 on: July 23, 2021, 01:28:04 AM »
Just have to laugh at your last comment, Dave.  It only takes ONE of those l o n g holes with a brace to convert forever to a hand-held drill!

Probably gonna have arms like Popeye if you do another that way.  I have a nice 1/2" hand drill bought just especially for that chore.
Craig Wilcox
We are all elated when Dame Fortune smiles at us, but remember that she is always closely followed by her daughter, Miss Fortune.

Offline mikeyfirelock

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 451
  • Built 1st gun in dorm room at college
Re: Drilling the Ramrod Hole First?
« Reply #17 on: August 05, 2021, 04:14:10 AM »
Drilling ramrod holes with a brace produces an expanded vocabulary
Mike Mullins

Offline Ats5331

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 391
Re: Drilling the Ramrod Hole First?
« Reply #18 on: August 05, 2021, 04:38:57 AM »
Mark Weader is the best at it. Worth the $$ and cool to visit his shop!

Offline WESTbury

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1548
  • Marble Mountain central I Corps May 1969
Re: Drilling the Ramrod Hole First?
« Reply #19 on: August 05, 2021, 05:29:37 AM »
Hi,
 Certainly, ramrod drills can migrate when drilling the hole but most of the difficulties of fitting components can be resolved simply by drawing out plans first.
dave
Here's a picture of a ramrod hole that drifted up and toward the lock cavity. One barrel flat had to be relieved a little to clear the end of the rod when it was seated home.

The barrel of this old original rifle is 47-1/4" long.
 



"We are not about to send American Boys 9 to 10 thousand miles away from home to do what Asian Boys ought to be doing for themselves."
President Lyndon B. Johnson October 21, 1964