Purchasing firearms from overseas auctions?

[DavidC]

I know we are the "American" longrifle forum but I have been long since more interested in our European roots. I'm seeing a lot of really desirable guns coming up at overseas auctions but I've never had any experience with purchasing and shipping a gun from overseas. Aside from the naturally more expensive shipping cost what is the process? Are black powder antique guns as easy to move as they are  in the US? Can anyone recommend assistance for parts of the process for auctions from, say, France?

[Chris_B]

David, my way of purchasing guns is vice versa, means I import them all (or have them imported)
from the USA to Germany.
Several transporters refuse to ship "weapons" of any kind overseas, I guess that goes for both ways.
Depends a lot of whom and where you ask and how you declare what you plan to ship....
Since antique muzzleloaders can be bought in most European countries I know of, there should be
minor restrictions if any.
But be careful: In Germany (I do not know about the other countries) you need a special permission
to buy multi-shot or multi-barreled caplock guns, you are not allowed to buy or own Revolvers, double
barreled percussion rifles and the like without that permission. I am not sure if that is a problem for
foreign buyers, just wanted to mention it.
When I import American items I have to add about 25'% of their value (+shipping + insurence) for German
taxes and customs fees, you probably will have to add some amount, too.

If an auction house or private seller refuses to ship a gun, I have them send it to Simpsonīs in Illinois,
they handle it for me. Maybe you check on them if they have experience with imports, too, or at least can
tell you who has.

Best, Chris   

[DavidC]

Thanks Chris, their website looks promising. I left a message asking for further details on the process. Good luck on your collection.

[Chris_B]

Same to you!
I hope they can help.

[backsplash75]

I haven't exported from France, but I can tell you that despite being legal to ship domestically on both ends as an antique- getting a 300 year old non weapon shipped via air freight out of the UK to the USA or Australia requires working with an exporter who handles normal firearms.

[BradBrownBess]

I did it once from Thomas Del Mar in the UK. 1720 French Horse Pistol. I would not do it again. The auction house stated after the auction that they did not ship and gave me shippers. None of them would actually ship accept one of them - shipping to US was going to be 1650.00. Yep - that's right. The auction house was superb as far as their offering help and advice etc. So no knock against them - they just expect buyers to research. They stated it is getting very, very difficult for them to sell outside of the UK.

I finally got to a shipper that handled the pickup, packing, and shipping for me. It was 600 total aprox.
I also went the route of getting a customs broker locally. That cost me another 275.

It took me about 2 months to get the pistol. Had I not used the Customs Broker it would have taken who knows how long. I had to take off work and drive to my airport to pick it up as well - HUGE customs warehouse - FEDEX handled the actual shipping apparently - but they just flew it over. I had paperwork stating it was "decorative arts" antique, not a modern arm etc. Just getting it at the airport took about 2 hours of paperwork and them cross checking everything and finding the box.

All of Europe has very, very, very strict rules on weapons. Even a flintlock or piece of a flintlock is considered a dangerous weapon - which means most shippers will not touch them.
I believe in the UK you have to be licensed to carry a knife in a public place. So if you are a chef and carry around your fine set of German knives you need a permit.

I am no expert on Euro arms laws - but the shipping is a non-starter for anything but the rarest most impossible to get piece. Oh and you will pay a Buyers Prem plus VAT tax - generally about 40% total of the hammer price - and there is the exchange rate which is always slanted against the dollar.

I did talk to a dealer of fine shotguns in the US that said he could possibly help if I ever decided to buy a few more "bulk" pieces - as he buys and ships from UK twice a year - bulk rate and his markup makes it worth it for him. I did not save his information.

In the end - I got a very nice circa 1720 French A-Liege made horse pistol for about what it would have cost me here at a high end auction. I could not recoup the money if I sold it - but its a keeper for me.

So there is a very good reason most of the European Arms do not end up in the US. Its just not feasible unless perhaps you had a large business and even then the US market for antique arms is not enough to support the investment.

[Bob Roller]

This is a late follow up to the Eurononsense but as a wee brat in Chicago during WW2 I remember seeing signs asking to send a gun to "Defend a British Home".Old Adolf had kicked them off the Continent and they were scared witless I supppose.
Bob Roller

[DavidC]

Bob, they stood for for years as their homes were bombed and never broke. I'd take that one at face value and say they just needed guns.

If I believe what I've read from others on this forum you were already old and grey when off-brand Chaplin tried to cause trouble, so I hope you sent them some proper triggers for their sheet metal lead hoses.

[FlintFan]

Steve Bertram will take the headache out of the process

 http://www.bertramandco.com/

It's not cheap, but I have had him handle the importation of modern guns out of the UK.  He will also handle the importation of antique guns, which is a bit less expensive, but still a headache if you try to do it yourself. 

He is a good guy, and very easy to work with.