Author Topic: Making flints  (Read 10543 times)

PeterB

  • Guest
Making flints
« on: October 01, 2009, 09:22:18 AM »
I am still working on my first flintlock but am interested in flints for it. I am a rock/gemstone worker and have all kinds of materials available. I wonder what you like most. Most flints I see are simple slabs cut to size with angled faces. They seem to work best after a couple of strikes which give the stone an irregular face and cut off some steel better. Any suggestions on best angles? I imagine this might vary from lock to lock. Any suggestions on material? true flint is just agate or jasper if darkly colored, but other than generally a hardness of 7, they will vary a bit in hardness. There are some garnets at 7 1/2 and beryl at 8 or corundum at 9, but this might lower the frizzen life. Older flints seem to have one straight side and one sidewith a low angled "v" shape which I imagine was to allow a better grip on the flint.

Any thoughts would be appreciated

Offline rich pierce

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 19540
Re: Making flints
« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2009, 03:38:00 PM »
In my experience sawn flints do not work well long because they tend to "smooth" over time instead of self-sharpening.

My approach in flint-making is to vary the thickness and angle according to the rock I am using.  If it is tough rock (hard to knap) then I tend to make flints thinner and with a more acute angle so they will remain sharp longer.  If the rock knaps easily (like English) then I make them a little thicker and a steeper angle.  Trial and error will give you the angles you need for the rock you use.  "Agate" does not always equal "agate" for example.  Wandering down a creekbed I can collect rocks of many different degrees of toughness in one bucket in one morning.  I vary my plan of attack, rock by rock when making flints.
Andover, Vermont

Offline Acer Saccharum

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 19311
    • Thomas  A Curran
Re: Making flints
« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2009, 03:55:32 PM »
As Rich indicates, there is wide variety in stone quality. The French flints seem to be a bit easier on the frizzen and spark better than English in my Lg. Siler. However, in my L&R Bailes, that hitsd like the hammers of $#*!, so I use a Rich Pierce 'Missouri White Thunder' flint. ( I can't call 'em White Ligthening', that name's already been taken)

Point being, different locks like different hardness of rock. Maybe it's to do with the composition and hardness of the frizzen, combine with the angle of attack and force and speed of the flint striking the firzzen. There, all that info should help anyone with some math skills figure out what the perfect flint is for their lock. ;D

I googled 'flint knapping': https://www.msu.edu/~doneycar/flint.html

Tom
Tom Curran's web site : http://monstermachineshop.net
Ramrod scrapers are all sold out.

Offline Bill of the 45th

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1436
  • Gaylord, Michigan
Re: Making flints
« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2009, 04:15:25 PM »
Peter, Welcome.  Those two nefarious characters, are spot on, and Rich is too humble to say so but his are among the best made.  You might want to get a few from him to see how they are shaped, and then go from there.  Cut flints really don't work that well, and as acer said the flint's performance will vary with the lock.  A well set up lock, with proper flints should result in 30 to 100 shots before you should have to change it.  That said, you still have to knap the flint as it dulls, and work it in the lock.  Rich I,m sure will be glad to share some of his knowledge with you, as will others.  Have fun with it .

Bill
Bill Knapp
Over the Hill, What Hill, and when did I go over it?

Offline Benedict

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 261
Re: Making flints
« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2009, 06:37:21 PM »
My experience with cut flints has be OK.  It seems that some work fine and some break easily.  I suspect that it is related to the grain structure in the rock and its relation to the way it was cut.  Some have lasted a long time and some broke right away.  Since I have tried Rich's knapped flints, I am hooked on them.

If you can tell the grain direction and cut them accordingly, they will probably be fine.

Bruce

Offline Acer Saccharum

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 19311
    • Thomas  A Curran
Re: Making flints
« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2009, 06:46:18 PM »
Grain in flint? Hmmmm.

Look at this, is it similar?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conchoidal_fracture

For some reason, unbeknownst to me, I am so attracted to the flintlock. Is it the mystery of creating fire with two stone cold objects? It feels really primitive somehow, yet look at the discussions we have about the  complicated mechanisms and forms that surround this very simple occurrence of flint on steel.

Tom
« Last Edit: October 01, 2009, 06:49:02 PM by Acer Saccharum »
Tom Curran's web site : http://monstermachineshop.net
Ramrod scrapers are all sold out.

Offline Acer Saccharum

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 19311
    • Thomas  A Curran
Re: Making flints
« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2009, 06:49:37 PM »
Really good coffee today. ;D
Tom Curran's web site : http://monstermachineshop.net
Ramrod scrapers are all sold out.

PeterB

  • Guest
Re: Making flints
« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2009, 07:18:07 PM »
I haven't knapped before but have a lot of friends who are knappers. If you are in the West, there is a knap-in every Spring Break at Glass Buttes just West of Burns in Eastern Oregon. There are usually a couple dozen knappers and kids here making arrowheads, axes, etc. They also collect there, but it is volcanic glass (obsidian) and likely not great for gun flints. It is found over a large hill there in mahogany, silver sheen, green, blue, purple, and rainbow. There is also some great green sometimes with red or yellow and white agatized petrified wood nearby. This certainly has grain structure which is easy to see in the wood pattern.

One trick that has been relayed to me to make knapping easier for some agate/jasper/flint is to heat it in a fire. The indians knew this trick.

J.D.

  • Guest
Re: Making flints
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2009, 04:01:48 AM »
From personal experience, don't tell anyone at a knap-in that you want to learn to make gunflints. The knappers seem to look down on anyone who wants to make something other than arrow or dart points. One person, in particular, was down right rude when I mentioned that I was interested in learning to knap gun flints.

IMHO, heat treating flint/chert makes it softer. IMHO soft flints don't last long bashing into a hardened piece of steel.

God bless

Offline woodsrunner

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 456
Re: Making flints
« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2009, 04:51:18 AM »
OK. I've never knapped a flint, but I have a question or two about it.

At home in the Southern Mountains I've found a lot of Indian knives/projectile points made out of Smokey Quartz. This material must be up close to diamonds on the hardness scale. If you take a 20 power botanical hand lens you can usually see row after row of secondary chipping lines that aren't visible to any degree otherwise. So....would this material make gun flints? Or is it too hard? If it could be used would the flint last longer than one made of flint or chert? I've often thought that the Indians used smokey quartz out of desperation considering all of the very very fine chipping marks.

And what about the obsidian that PeterB mentioned? I've found piles of obsidian chips and defective projectile points at several places deep down in Mexico. If this material is usable it's definately available. Straighten me out on this, please!


FG1

  • Guest
Re: Making flints
« Reply #10 on: October 02, 2009, 05:16:44 AM »
I had a hunk of green jasper I think it was that I had in my fire making kit that was super hot . One hit on your steel and you had the char lit . It may have been jade I dont know but it was green and was found local.

PeterB

  • Guest
Re: Making flints
« Reply #11 on: October 02, 2009, 07:00:32 AM »
Jade doesn't chip. In this country it is mainly nephrite which has long grains which interact at all angles making it extremely difficult even to crack. Also, it is only a hardness of 6 1/2.

Glass is similar to opal or opalite. It is chemically the same as quartz/flint (SiO2), but glass and opalite have no crystalline structue and are therefore softer than quartz. Roughly 6 1/2 instead of 7. Now these scales are related to existing stones and are not a certain percentage harder than the next number. Diamond is 10 but infinitely harder than quartz. Curundum (ruby & saphire) is 9, crysoberyl is 8 1/2, garnets are 7 1/2-8, beryl (emerald, aquamarine, etc) is 8. The harder stones would spark like crazy but wear out the frizzen quickly.

Smokey quartz is the same as regular quartz or jasper or flint. The harder stones are ones which are usually not close to the surface. Those get weathered and cracked and made porous.

PeterB

  • Guest
Re: Making flints
« Reply #12 on: October 02, 2009, 07:11:01 AM »
By the way, silica dioxide (quartz) is one of the most common rocks on earth. Would be cool to use flint or quartz from your local area. Amethyst is also quartz, yellow is citrine. Colored quartz is stained or has trace elements. Oregon's green agate is colored by uranium. Jasper is not translucent so has a higher trace element percentage. The extraneous info is from having a degree in gemology.

Offline Acer Saccharum

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 19311
    • Thomas  A Curran
Re: Making flints
« Reply #13 on: October 02, 2009, 02:12:06 PM »
Cool beans, guys.  ;D
Tom Curran's web site : http://monstermachineshop.net
Ramrod scrapers are all sold out.

Offline rich pierce

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 19540
Re: Making flints
« Reply #14 on: October 02, 2009, 02:32:34 PM »
There's a lot of variation within classifications (flint, chert, jasper, etc) and within one stone.  If you are interested in making gunflints from your local stone, you can often find something that can suffice.

I agree that any form of glass (like obsidian) will not work.  It's good to keep in mind that the flintlock was designed to work with....flint.   ;D  There's a lot of technical stuff to consider, like in any field, if you wish.  For example we don't have any flint in America accoring to the rigorous definition of flint as only found in chalk beds.  So most of what we call flint in America is tedchnically called chert, but that does not make any difference.  I have made gunflints from jasper, chert and what would be called agate by most people.

Certainly Native Americans made projectile points and tools from whatever was available, and when not available, used bone, ivory, antler, etc.  But the availability of good working "flint" (chert in many cases, obsidian etc in others) probably influenced where folks lived and with whom they traded.

I wrote an article a few years back for On the Trail magazine on how to find flint and make gunflints with simple tools.  There was a good article in Muzzle Blasts some time ago on this also and there are a couple resources on the web.

If you already know how to knap rock by percussion it's pretty easy.  I was self taught and so developed my own approach and tool kit.

Much will depend on the rock.  From a pure homogeneous nodule of English or French etc flint the size of a football I might get 6 or 8 dozen flints if things went well and I didn't make many false moves.  From a typical heterogeneous piece of Missouri chert with a thick rind of limestone and transitional rock surrounding a much smaller core of good knappable "flint" that has a bunch of inclusions and some internal cracks, maybe 1-2 dozen.
Andover, Vermont

PeterB

  • Guest
Re: Making flints
« Reply #15 on: October 02, 2009, 06:51:30 PM »
Please always wear eye protection. The chips are very sharp and jump off quickly. Hold your rock in heavy gloves or wrapped in leather to protect your hands.

Offline davec2

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2959
    • The Lucky Bag
Re: Making flints
« Reply #16 on: October 03, 2009, 07:54:36 AM »
Interesting topic.  I have never knapped a gun flint but tried some obsidian arrow heads many years ago.  A Navy friend of mine taught me how to do it and gave me a big lump of obsidian.  I made a bunch of normal sized arrow heads and then got the bright idea to keep making them smaller and smaller until I couldn't do it any more.  I came up with these.  There was one smaller one, but I sneezed and it disappeared!  Fun to do.  I need to try a gun flint.







« Last Edit: February 21, 2020, 11:49:00 AM by davec2 »
"No man will be a sailor who has contrivance enough to get himself into a jail; for being in a ship is being in a jail, with the chance of being drowned... a man in a jail has more room, better food, and commonly better company."
Dr. Samuel Johnson, 1780

Offline Dave B

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3132
Re: Making flints
« Reply #17 on: October 03, 2009, 08:39:21 AM »
This was years ago but the guys are still around I imagine. I was back to Ohio for a seminar and thought to buz over to Friendship since it was not far from Centervile. I walked the grounds at the range and while walking through the trailers parked at the camp ground I saw some fellas working some flint. They let me watch and answered questions and finally on says come on give it a try. They  were using copper buss bars to drive off the flakes from the nodule. I did finally get some good sections off of one cunk of what he called "Kentucky Blue flint" I had a neat little pile from my efforts and the gent gave me my work  to take home. I still have some of the sections from that little experience and the flints that I have been using for the last 15 years are from that same pile.
Dave Blaisdell