Questions Lancaster building

[Adrie luke]

Hello,

It is a long time ago I had something to tell on ALR.
I started making a Lancaster rifle full scale. [Hans Muller gave me, when he was still alive, a stock, a barrel, a lock and some hardware, and a drawing]

My question is: on the drawing I see three barrel lugs, but when I look at the lug in the middle, it is not in the middle.
The same problem I have with the ramrod pipes.
The distance measures are not the same between the front and the middle and the rear and the middle.
I do not know why, can anybody help me?

Next question is: The front of the rifle on the drawing is tapered. I thought that this always must be straight.
[see picture] When you click on the picture it becomes bigger.



I hope you understand my questions.
Thanks,
Adrie

[smylee grouch]

Welcome back Adrie. Looks like you have a good start and I'm sure you will get good advice here. Good luck on the build. 

[David Rase]

My first question would be who's drawing are you talking about.  Not all drawings are created equal.  With that said, I normally locate my thimbles and entry pipe before I layout my barrel lug locations.  I am more concerned about getting my pipes laid out correctly than the lugs as the pipes are more visual to the eye than the lugs.  Lug location can be adjusted as necessary to work around the pipe location. 
David 

[RAT]

It's not critical that all the lugs and pipes need to be perfectly equidistant. I think that's a modern obsession. I've only measured a hand full of originals, but the pipes weren't equidistant.

[J. Talbert]

My first question would be who's drawing are you talking about.  Not all drawings are created equal.  With that said, I normally locate my thimbles and entry pipe before I layout my barrel lug locations.  I am more concerned about getting my pipes laid out correctly than the lugs as the pipes are more visual to the eye than the lugs.  Lug location can be adjusted as necessary to work around the pipe location. 
David

I do the same.  Lay out the pipes first and then find the best spots for the barrel pins between the pipes.

Jeff

[Algae]

Looking forward to following your posts on this one Adrie!

Al Jenkins

[M. E. Pering]

To tell you the truth, Adrie, I never lay mine out equal.  If you look at photos of old ones, they are not always equal.  What old makers were doing, in my opinion, was creating an illusion that the rifle was slimmer, and thus more elegant.  You will find the middle pipe closer to the front in some cases, and in others, closer to the rear.  I have measured some that are pretty close to equal as well, so there is really no right answer here.

[Adrie luke]

Thanks for your support.
This is the drawing, the stock was already shaped for this drawing.



I will adjust the measures on the drawing to what I think is better.
What M. E. Pering told me is very interesting. [Only we can not ask anybody in the 19th century].





I want to let you know that I am very happy whit my new, old tool.
You will hear from me again.

Adrie

[Goo]

My mentor taught me that on long guns with fewer ram rod pipes to place them in a way so that when the butt end is on the ground  and you are putting the ram rod back into the gun your hand will grip the barrel and help guide the rod into the entry pipe. 

[Chowmi]

Adrie,
Nice to see you working on that rifle from Hans!

Can you please explain again your question about the front of the rifle being tapered?  Do you mean when you are looking down on it from the top, or when you are looking at it from the side?  I assume you mean that it is tapering toward the muzzle, but I am not sure of your question. 
Also, which barrrel are you using?  Is it that old one that you milled?  Really what I want to know is whether the barrel you have is swamped. 

If we can’t get this figured out here by typing words, I should just call you!

Norm

[Adrie luke]

Norm,
 
The front of the stock is thinner I always thought it must be straight.

Adrie

[Chowmi]

Adrie,
I see what you say if I look at the first drawing you gave.
I think that is an error in the drawing. Maybe a pencil slip/error? 
Yes, I think the bottom line should be straight, until it goes up for the muzzle cap. 

I think your plan drawing is good, but not perfect. I know you well, my friend, do not try to follow the plan perfectly.  Look at pictures of original rifles. They did not follow a plan, they followed their eye. I know your eye is better than mine, so trust it! 

Less plans, more art. I know you know art.

Wish I could be there with you, all the best to Gonnie!
We are well, and might have found our house to buy!  I hope you will be our guest soon!

Norm.

[Chowmi]

Adrie,
Here are a few other ideas for you.
I think your forward ramrod pipe should not be so close to the muzzle. I know your drawing has it that way, but the old rifles were often not built that way.
If you have already made the barrel lugs, then I guess it is too late.

Look at these photos from original rifles. ( the photos are from the ALR library).



All the best,
Norm.

[Adrie luke]

Hello,

I have placed the lock in the stock. It fits well.
I continue working and keep you informed.
Adrie

[Adrie luke]

Hello,

I was waiting to receive stuff I ordered by Track of the Wolff.
In the meantime I have cleaned my lock.



And I engraved the lock.





I received the parts and I can place the butplate.



I started shaping the stock. The stock was not very thick. Now my cheekpiece is rather thin.





I think of putting a piece of embony on it. I saw that before by the little rifles of Davec2.




Later I will show more.
All the best,
Adrie

[Jim Chambers]

In a conversation with Wallace Gusler at a show several years ago he mentioned that of all the thousands of original rifles that he has examined/measured not one single one had the underlugs equally spaced.  As others have said, install the ramrod pipes first and then let the underlugs go wherever they fit best.

[mikeyfirelock]

I try to get the barrel pins reasonably spaced, but don’t care if they are equally spaced.  I do pay attention to keeping them out if close proximity it’s to the thimble pins.  (I am working on an A weight swamped barrel at present and know for sure they will have to be spaced at different intervals on this to avoid the thinnest part )

[Adrie luke]

Car tape, easy way to line out.

[Adrie luke]

I searched a very, very long time for the carving for my Lancaster rifle.
This is my second rifle on full scale and I think it will be the last.
Two weeks ago I found the showcase of guns Wayne Doucette has built.
There I found the carving what I like the most for my rifle.
I am very glad I found it.
The rough work is done. I will make the black lines of silverinlay.
I am lucky, the cheekpiece has the same thickness as on the drawing.
I keep you informed.
Adrie

[Darkhorse]

Will this rifle have a swamped barrel? If yes, then I have thought long about the same questions before finally deciding on how to approach it.
I follow the shape of the barrel which will end up with the end of the stock always of a different size.
When pinning the barrel I try not to pin at the narrowest point, but will cheat towards the thicker dimension at the rear of the stock. Again, this results in my barrel pins not being equidistance from each other.

I'm satisfied at the way it looks but I don't know if it's right or not.

[Adrie luke]

Hello,

I do not have enough wood to make a patch box.
I thought may be ebony, but I saw on this forum a question of J. Talbert.
You can see that by the link below.

https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=73152.0

For me this was the solution and I think the patch box is hinged at the bottom.
Do you think I have the right angel for my patch box?



Thanks for the help again!
Adrie

[Adrie luke]

Hello,

I am still busy. Jim Chambers, the lock is a Chambers lock. I love that.
Very nice details. I made the patch box and sideplate myself. I use
drawings of David Price for them. Today I received some more silver
so I can go on. Here some pictures.

Adrie.

[Grischi]

This is amazing. Can't wait to see the finished rifle.

Christian