follow up on lead free roundball options/tests

[axelp]

So I tried to mold roundball out of 80%bismuth/20%lead-free solder? I posted my results in a previous post a while back...I found that 80/20 might be suitable for a roundball...

As a follow up... I poured the leftover mixture into an ingot with the intent to mold more ball from it in the future... I tried to use the ingot a few days ago... I remelted the mixture and started to mold ball... the mixture melted again ok but when I tried to mold ball, the balls just crumbled into a grainy pile... I am thinking that the bismuth and the lead-free solder is good to mold one time, but reheating and casting is a problem??

strange

Axe

[BrownBear]

No clue, but I've been wondering along the same lines.

I've got some "lead free" wire intended for using to tie flies in areas that ban lead.  It seems as ductile and soft as the pure lead wire I also use, but not quite as dense.  I'm wondering if this is the same stuff, or yet another potential alternative metal.  Aside from the weight difference, it sure "acted" like lead.

[Daryl]

Ken- did you flux the melt?  It's possible that when originally melted and blended, you got a good mix, but subsequente melting allowed the components to separate, leaving a crumbly, brittle substance that won't stay together.  Just a thought.

[axelp]

Lead free wire or solder is just not dense enuff. We tried 100% lead free solder roundball and it would not penetrate... it just bounced off. But the bismuth and leadfree solder mixed roundball did go thru 2" of poplar wood...

I am not sure what the second melting did, but it ruined the ingot... Here is what I think: Someone needs to make pure bismuth roundballs and then electro plate them in copper. The copper will help keep the bismuth together on impact, and the bismuth will be heavy and dense enuff so as to simulate lead.

OR just kill all the dang condors and be done with it...

Axe

[frogwalking]

I think I need to buy some more lead before it becomes illegal.  The local hardware quit selling it.  Where can I buy 10 more pounds or so?

[caliber45]

I've found that one can sometimes find inexpensive (sometimes even free!) pure lead in the lead scrap boxes at stained glass shops. I recently accumulated 100+ pounds for the grand sum of $8.35, plus the gasoline expense of going to pick it up. It's worth a few calls IMHO. - paulallen

[JCKelly]

Modern "bismuth" shotgun pellets are an alloy of bismuth with about 3% by weight of tin in it. More tin is not necessarily better. That is tin , and not lead-tin solder.

One can actually buy reasonably pure bismuth, and reasonably pure tin. I believe the source for all this is http://www.rotometals.com

The purpose of the tin addition is that bismuth itself is very, very brittle--you might even say crumbly. A little tin makes it at least workable. I would not mess around with anything but that small amount of tin, in order to make the bismuth workable.

I have no idea what the lead does, probably is a bad idea. I am a metalllurgist but frankly I could have a lot more to say about steel or bronze.

[Daryl]

I read or saw, way back when non-toxic shot made of bismuth were allowed, that the test on bismuth pellets was to crush a pellet in needlenose pliers. The pellets would break and crumble somewhat, with a multitude of cracks around the perifery of the edges as the pellet squashed. Perhaps more tin is needed in the melt for a round ball to maintain it's integrity if used for hunting, to keep the ball from breaking?

Does casting bismuth in your lead pot contaminate the pot for lead, similar to trying to cast lead with zinc in it?

[JCKelly]

MORE IS NOT BETTER

This is not like mixing paint.

More tin is most unlikely to help, may make it worse.

[axelp]

In my tests, (you can look back in the past message strings for the details) I started with a 100% bismuth ball and it shattered crumbled when a 4lb hammer was dropped on it from a set distance. I then added a percentage of lead-free solder to the mix and kept testing...The lead-free solder helped keep the ball somewhat together, but not comparable to lead at all. It usually cracked into 3 or 4 chunks but al least it did not shatter and crumble. I increased the amount til it got to about 20% with very little difference in result after 10% I think.  I then tested these balls in a penetration test.

1. 100% lead free solder was too light to penetrate the piece of Poplar. It bounced off.
2. The 80/20 Bismuth ball went completely thru a 2" section of solid poplar--I could not find the projectile in my dirt backstop to see if it stayed together.

My conclusion was that Bismuth is dense and heavy enuff, but it needs something to keep it from shattering--either a percentage of tin or lead-free solder or I also wondered about plating a ball with enuff copper to keep it together...

I bought my 100% bismuth from Rotometals. I also talked to them via email and they said that there were a few folks experimenting like I was. I gave him my email addy to forward to the others in the hope that we could share our findings... but I doubt that it ever got past his email..