Info on Blogspot original, left-handed iron mounted, early gun?

[rich pierce]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_vb_Yo_ELC48/S0jfPczVlsI/AAAAAAAAWVo/GNNXrWem8Ug/s1600-h/DSCN0193.JPG

Any ideas on the origin of this one (bottom gun)?  Who to ask for details?

[Jim Kibler]

Don't think it's original Rich.  By the looks of it, I'm pretty certain it's a Hershel House gun.

[G-Man]

It is a Hershel House rifle.  I have seen it around over the years and it is nice piece.   Hershel's touch mark is there on the sideplate in the photo.  

It is a good example that is representative of a group of very similar walnut stocked guns that he built back in the mid-late 80s give or take a few years.  

Nice rifle.

Guy

[Jim Kibler]

Ah, to be fooled by a Hershel House gun.  How you going to live that one down! 

[rich pierce]

That's a tough blow.  I was going to say it looks like the builder trained George Schroyer.  But I guess Herschel is not really that old. 

[G-Man]

Rich - that's a great observation about Shroyer - and hits something that I think is a lot of the appeal of Hershel's and Frank's guns.  The more original rifles you study, the more you pick up on in Hershel and Frank's  contemporary guns.  

You see things in their work that reflect their own artistic vision of a combination of all the historic influences they have absorbed over the years by studying and handling the great originals - with Shroyer and Jacob Young being two of their big influences - but so many others as well.  They pull it off without anything looking like a copy, yet when you pick up one of their rifles you see recognizable things on their guns.  To me it is sort of like when you look at one of your kids and catch a subtle glimpse of your father or mother, a grandparent or a sibling, in their face.  A lot of it is so subtle it is almost on a subconscious level - they seem to be able to get inside the mindset of the original makers and capture the spirit of what they were doing, and have the end result exude more of the spirit of the times than if it had been an attempt at an exact copy.   And they make it look effortless, and not fussed over.

That's artistic genius, in my book

Guy

[Acer Saccharum]

I have a confession to make. I sent that link to Rich, thinking this gun was an original. Not one, but two red faces! Hahahaha. Who better to be fooled by, though, in my book. That's a great rifle. Very continental, with touches of America in it.

Tom

[rich pierce]

they seem to be able to get inside the mindset of the original makers and capture the spirit of what they were doing, and have the end result exude more of the spirit of the times than if it had been an attempt at an exact copy.   And they make it look effortless, and not fussed over.

That's artistic genius, in my book

Guy

I agree with all that, particularly the effortless part.  Whenever I see a master workman or workwoman work, and it looks so easy, I am impressed, whether it's a logger felling a tree or a glassblower, for example.

[Dphariss]

I have a confession to make. I sent that link to Rich, thinking this gun was an original. Not one, but two red faces! Hahahaha. Who better to be fooled by, though, in my book. That's a great rifle. Very continental, with touches of America in it.

Tom

Given the level of fakery in everything, rifles, horns etc etc I am extremely skeptical.
It does not look like an original gun to me at all. It looks like the typical fake modern made kentucky.
I believe people are buying fakes as originals KNOWING they are fakes but they are something they would like to have so they do it anyway. Horns, rifles etc. There are probably more fake F&I War horns than originals now.
Then if you are high enough ranked the Kentucky Rifle Collecting pecking order you can always resell it as an original and get your money back with no questions asked.

You floks need to really think about things before assuming anything with less than 50-100 years provenance is an original.
When I see a rifle etc that "recently surfaced" I have a good laugh.
Especially when the owner has written it up at some time a year or 3 previous. This is how its done. Make a fake. Write it up as found in some attic or "old cabin in eastern Kentucky" then in a year or two sell it. Especially when the carving on what is otherwise a well worn gun is still pretty sharp in the high wear areas. But some who post here will still go GAA-GAA over it anyway.
If I know this, being out the hills of Montana, how can you folks in the east not know?

People really need to wake up.
Dan

[rich pierce]

The gentleman who told me more about this gun indicated to me it is a signed, touchmarked Herschel House creation.  I state this so nobody falsely attributes motives to an outstanding artist.

[Acer Saccharum]

From the photo, I could not tell it was Herschell's. I see a mark of some kind on the sideplate, but that's not readable from here. To me, it looks like a genuine German/American piece. Extremely well carved and aged, spot on for the time period. The guard says American to me.

Rather than feel foolish for not recognizing it as a contemporary, I am very pleased to see a work so well done that it could pass for an original. That's a fine piece of work. Mr. House. I am honored (and lucky) to be on the planet at the same time as such an artist. The House brothers, Eric Kettenburg, A Martin, Mark Wheland and others have raised the bar yet again.

[art riser]

That particular Hershal gun has been used for quite a few years.  It's spent countless hours being drug through field and forest.

[Jim Kibler]

All joking aside, I don't mean disrespect to anyone, but if you've been around this stuff enough Hershel's work becomes generally readily apparent.  I don't think there is much danger of these being passed off as originals to the educated collector.  Not to mention they are signed and identified as such.  

With this being said, I think his work is fantastic.  What I think is great about it, is that it's not overdone and what is done is done well.  That's not to say that it's fanatical in execution, but where it really excels is in design.  His work is generally not overly complicated, but designed in a very appealing fasion.  The subtle aging or patination is part of this.  I don't think It's in any way an attempt to fool anybody, it's just part of the overall design.  Controlled variations in color and texture adding to the final product.

[rich pierce]

I missed out on the late 80's and all the 90's (went cold turkey on muzzleloading to address career needs).  That's my excuse for getting fooled and I'm sticking to it.  I remember when Herschel had a blanket full of nice iron mounted rifles at Friendship in the late 1970's.  That's the work of his I'm most familiar with.  Then I've seen the recent full blown Woodbury stuff.  There's a lot to like in all his work.

[Mike Brooks]

I believe that House gun was in one of the ""Buckskining" books.

[G-Man]

Rich/ Acer - I remember walking into the first few CLA shows and seeing some of the displays with lots of House rifles mixed in with some original rifles, and being  confused as well until you can see them up close.  When you see them up close they don't look like 200 year old guns, but that is not Hershel's intent.  

Hershel has done a lot of restoration work which is where the aging techniques he uses came from in the first place - gunsmiths have been using them for a long time - Hershel was just the first to use it (that I know of) as one of his signatures on contemporary guns, around the same time Gary Birch was using the same concept for leather and horn items.  Back in the day when most people's idea of what they wanted in a contemporay rifle was a gleaming brass mounted and inlayed golden age style rifle.  So it was a bold move, and something that set his work apart.  His aging is actually a lot less extreme than many people go for these days, and this is deliberate.  

Guy

[Acer Saccharum]

Guy, thanks for the insight into Herschel's work. I'm not that familiar with his work other than the Woodbury School, so seeing this piece is an eye opener.