Author Topic: Interesting find on the web  (Read 3672 times)

Offline Dr. Tim-Boone

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Interesting find on the web
« on: October 12, 2009, 09:33:46 PM »


A RARE BREECH-LOADING FLINTLOCK PARK RIFLE BY BENJAMIN GRIFFIN, BOND STREET, LONDON PROOF MARKS AND FOREIGNERS MARK, CIRCA 1765 with swamped sighted barrel rifled with twelve shallow grooves, signed within a looped linear frame over the flat and with grooved ramp at the rear, engraved tang, the breech fitted with a screw-in plug operated by the trigger-guard underneath, signed border-engraved lock, figured walnut full stock (the forward portion of the fore-end replaced, probably within its early working life), and engraved steel mounts including trigger-guard decorated with a flowerhead (the steel parts with areas of light piting, the stock with minor bruising) 92.4cm; 36Gin barrelGriffin made a number of rifles of this type. See W. Keith Neal & D.H.L. Back 1975, pp. 115-116. See also E. Griffin 1993, pp.208-211. £2500-3000
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.thomasdelmar.com/Catalogues/As141205/lot158.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.thomasdelmar.com/Catalogues/As141205/page6.htm&usg=__170tSjbtOFX90IVMeLo07FV-Y0w=&h=429&w=1024&sz=25&hl=en&start=106&sig2=U1CyDVh2ekQ

Also a flintlock breechloader: http://www.bolk-antiques.nl/showimagebig.cfm?cat=1209&subcat=2185&aid=373279&the_start=3


« Last Edit: October 12, 2009, 11:41:45 PM by DrTimBoone »
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Mike R

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Re: Interesting find on the web
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2009, 03:22:48 PM »
I thought Ferguson was credited with inventing this type arm and later in time? 

Offline Acer Saccharum

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Re: Interesting find on the web
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2009, 04:35:38 PM »
Ferguson may have the credit, but this type of breech was around before him. I have seen this in one of my books, same action, but not as sophisticated as the Ferguson. If I come across it, I will give the title of the book.
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Offline smart dog

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Re: Interesting find on the web
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2009, 05:16:01 PM »
Hi Guys,
The screw plug idea was around since the late 1600's or early 1700's.  The gun on the website has a plug that opens up the bottom but does not go all the way through the breech to the top like the La Chaumette or Ferguson system.  According to D. W. Bailey, the design was tested by the British Army in the 1760's when John Hirst submitted several guns to the ordnance department.  Another design has a plug on the top that also forms a sighting groove like a large wingnut. The major problem was the screw plug completely detached from the breech during loading, which was impractical for military purposes.

dave
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Offline G-Man

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Re: Interesting find on the web
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2009, 05:40:07 PM »
There were a lot of English gunmakers experimenting with breech loaders before Ferguson.  My understanding is that Ferguson's unique contribution was the design of the threads.  From what I have read, earlier variations were made mainly as high-end sporitng guns, but apparently they were prone to fouling clogging the threads if they were used heavily, as in a military scenario.  Ferguson's thread design allowed the gun to be fired many more times with less fouling, reducing the problems with jamming up with fouling.

Richard Chubb used to have a fantastic, pristine condition sporting rifle by Newton with a threaded breech loading mechanism - looked to be maybe 1760s-1770s.  He brought it to Noblesville and Friendship for about 4 or 5 years in a row.  It probably sold long ago.  Made really slender like a fowler, but rifled, and just the sleekest looking thing you have ever seen.  Wish I had gotten some  pictures of it.  As I recall, the threads were much finer and tighter than on the Ferguson - perhaps it was one of those prone to fouling(?)

The Dutch rifle in the second link is very cool too.  Neal and Back show a John Harman fowler with a similar break open breech loading mechanism and back action lock, ca: 1730 (the frizzen, pan, and cartridges were integral assemblies - you would pre-load the cartridge assembly and drop it into place, snap shut the breech and you were ready to go!).  Never heard any reports of how well these worked though.



Guy
« Last Edit: October 13, 2009, 06:56:17 PM by Guy Montfort »

Mike R

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Re: Interesting find on the web
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2009, 10:47:15 PM »
Thanks, learn something every day...