Flintlock with question

[Lampro]

I have caplocks and now this is my first flintlock. I'm not sure who made it or when it was made. It has a Bill Large .50 caliber barrel with what looks like about 1:48 twist. I was told it's basically a Colonial style.

Now my question. Is the cock supposed to be able to hit the frizzen? On this gun the jaws of the cock, even with the flint removed, are able to hit the frizzen hard enough to open it. I don't know but I would have thought only the flint should strike the frizzen.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I don't think I've ever seen a flintlock whose cock jaws could not strike the frizzen without a flint installed.  BUT NEVER FIRE A LOCK WITHOUT A FLINT!!!!  What your rifle has is an L & R Durs Egg flintlock (or less likely, a John Clark lock).  L & R's Durs Egg locks consistently have powerful mainsprings, and are great sparkers.
With your frizzen closed and the lock at half cock, your flint should protrude from the cock jaws to within no more than 1/18" distance from the frizzen.  If the flint touches the frizzen it will likely interfere with the frizzen closing over the pan.  But too short, and there is a likelyhood that the top jaw screw may collide as it falls with the tip of the frizzen , which too is bad.

[Mike Brooks]

Have you tried closing the frizzen?

[hanshi]

Yeah...What they said! 

[Eric Krewson]

Judging by the ding on the lock plate behind the cock and my past experience with an L&R lock I would say your cock stop isn't hitting the lock plate and is letting the cock travel too far forward.

I bought an L&R RPL flintlock for a TC, the tumbler wasn't milled right and the cock sat way too far off from the lock plate and the stop just hit the corner of the lock plate. If I had shot the gun more than just a few times the cock stop would have worn a place out where it could completely miss the lock plate.

I sent the lock back to L&R, they sent it back much worse than when I sent it in so I fixed it myself,

[Lampro]

"Have you tried closing the frizzen?"

Yes the frizzen closes fine with the cock on half-cock.

On half-cock, with the frizzen closed the flint is close to the frizzen but not quite touching it.

I actually do not know what the cock stop is. I guess I'll have to do some research.

I have fired this gun a few times, five shots to be exact. It seemed to work fine as far as sparking, and firing. It seemed fairly accurate at 25 yards given that I haven't tried to work up a load yet.

[RAT]

The stop is the shelf on the inside portion of the cock near the neck that rests on top of the lock plate when the cock is all the way down in the rest position. What Eric is saying is that, if the cock sits was out on the tumbler shaft, the gap between the inside of the cock and the outside of the lock plate may be big enough that the shelf could miss the top of the plate and allow the cock to move too far forward. That's a bad situation that will break parts.

If I've encountered the top jaw or screw hitting the frizzen the fix is usually installing a different sized flint, or turning the flint around (bevel up... or bevel down).

Also... as Taylor said... never dry fire a flint lock without a flint... and never dry fire a flint lock with the frizzen open. The frizzen/frizzen spring resistance is needed to slow the forward movement of the cock enough to prevent parts from breaking.

[alacran]

The fact that the rifle has a Bill Large barrel on it suggests it is from the Seventies or Eighties. The early L & R Durs Egg, were very well made. The stirrup link between the mainspring and the tumbler was pinned to the tumbler. The bridle had a fence on the lower part that kept the bridle square to the lock plate. The fly had a boss around it so the fly itself was not riding against the lock plate. Liston Rice told me that when they started offering the lock, they had trouble keeping up with demand.
He told me they were also offered as a kit.
I have one that was assembled from a kit, but not by myself. It was very well assembled. It has the frizzen screw inserted from the outside of the pan instead of from inside the lock plate. That is why I surmised that it is a kit lock.
It is a very good lock as well as the later production locks of which I have one on my smooth bore.
What Taylor says about the flint placement is right on the money.
Make a practice flint out of a piece of hardwood, so you can practice without ruining flints

[Eric Krewson]

Cock stop;

[Lampro]

Ok I see the cock-stop. The cock-stop is hitting the lock plate, however the cock-stop and the lock plate are both peened. The peening is allowing the bottom of the cock-jaw to contact the top of the 'flash-guard'.
 
I'm not sure if 'flash-guard' is the right term but I'm referring to  the wall-like part behind the pan that helps direct the flash.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

There are several ways you can go to remedy this.
You can replace the metal on the cock and plate to repair the damage there, if that is in fact what is allowing the lower jaw of the cock to strike the top of the fence.
You can file away some of the metal on the lower jaw and the top of the fence so that they clear.
Or you can heat the cock red in the neck area, and bend the jaws up just a tad so that they clear the fence.
Or you could even install a new Durs Egg lock.

[smallpatch]

It’s called a fence, and your cock should not be hitting it.

A small plate can be soldered, or a small amount welded on the bottom of the shelf on the cock to keep that from happening.

[Lampro]

Thanks very much. There's great knowledge here and I feel fortunate to be able to learn from you all.

[Bob Roller]

If the lock is snapped with an open frizzen and no flint you can then replace the top jaw screw because if the lock has a strong spring  that screw will be BENT.The stop on the cock bypassing the plate indicates botched assembly and NO competent inspection before packing and shipping.
Bob Roller