Accra glass gel question

[FALout]

You show a pic of your lock against the barrel, your not thinking of using acra glass between them are you?  I see a little bit of a gap, but that is more likely to be because the lock is not square to the barrel flat.

[Terry Cheek]

After reading everyone’s response to my original question, I believe at this point; I will shelve the Accra glass for now. More experienced builders have given me other options that seem more appropriate. I will be posting more pictures of my progress.  I appreciate every reply and advice given about Accra glass; I will be referring back to it in the future. If there are more suggestions or advice, send them my way. The choice of an SMR has an interesting back story I will share sometime.

Terry

[Terry Cheek]

I want to peen the trigger guard finials to close the gaps a little. Is there anyone with experience, advice, or comments to share about peening? This group has been an incredible sharing experience. You folks have class.

Learning as I go
Terry

[Mike Brooks]

I want to peen the trigger guard finials to close the gaps a little. Is there anyone with experience, advice, or comments to share about peening? This group has been an incredible sharing experience. You folks have class.

Learning as I go
Terry

I have never peened anything to close gaps. Don't make gaps. A dark colored wax will take care of your problem.

[Dphariss]

I want to peen the trigger guard finials to close the gaps a little. Is there anyone with experience, advice, or comments to share about peening? This group has been an incredible sharing experience. You folks have class.

Learning as I go
Terry

Make sure the hammer has a smooth face. Polish it.
Go easy, be careful not to flatten contours. So pean the edges. With light blows and a light hammer.
You may have to clean up the edges to make them straight. Don’t make the part too small again.
Its possible to used some sort of goop to fill the gaps. But I prefer metal fits the wood.
But I used to work for a more finicky clientele than many ML folks are.

[Terry Cheek]

Thank you for sharing this information. I will practice on scrap first.

[Mike Brooks]

The best way to fill gaps is to not make them.

[Jim Kibler]

I want to peen the trigger guard finials to close the gaps a little. Is there anyone with experience, advice, or comments to share about peening? This group has been an incredible sharing experience. You folks have class.

Learning as I go
Terry

I have never peened anything to close gaps. Don't make gaps. A dark colored wax will take care of your problem.

Are you leading us to believe you've never made gaps?!  Not picking, but careful metal peening is preferred to wax filler at least in my view.  It's usually a pretty simple process...  I'm with you though, in that it's best not to make gaps in the first place.

Jim

[Terry Cheek]

I agree with both Jim and Mike. It's best practice not to create gaps. But I did, and I have to deal with them. I am searching for the best way possible for me to learn and build a rifle I want to show to others. Thanks again for all your input.

TerryC

[kutter]

To extend the trigger guard tang back a bit to close the gap, you can remove the guard, flip it over and on the back side of that extension  'cross peen' the metal to make it longer.
The technique was and still is used on shotgun forends (cartridge guns) to lengthen the forend irons on guns that have loose actions. That is the bbls and forend assembly wobble when the gun is opened.
The lengthening of the forend metal makes a firm fit betw the front of the frame and the bbl forend hanger to tighten things up.

Using the same metal stretching technique here which is just peening really, but this is done  a ways from the edges.
A heavy Cross Peen Hammer was used. The face is nearly a chisel shape but not a sharp edge. It is blunted so as not to cut into the metal. But instead pushes the metal aside with each blow. That action is what stretches and lengthens the piece you are working on.
A blunt edge chisel can be used as well with a heavy hammer. Clamp the work securely or have a helper hold the work so you can use the hammer and blunt chisel (drift) to cross peen the back.

Usually done cold in the above work,,it can be done with the metal at red heat and the results are much more dramatic and quick.
The tip of the piece being pushed out longer may wander to one side or the other slightly. Not much unless you get carried away doing this.. Straightening is usually no problem.
Since all the peening is done to the bottom surface, the top surface is left undamaged less some minor marks from the anvil or other hard surface it laid on during the work. That can be easily filed and polished away.

Another way to fix the very slight inletting gap on a piece like this radius at the end of the Tguard is to remove the guard and fill the existing pin hole in the lug.
Hard solder or braze is good. Sometimes I hardsolder a piece of the pin used right into the hole and then trim it off.

Then bend  that rear tang up and then back down again back into place. Then the resulting slight kink in the tang from the bending is hammered flat.
The tang will now be a slight amount longer than it was before you started because of the bending.
Do it at red heat if worried about breaking it. I don't know what matl it is. I do about all bending & twisting with steel at red heat.

Re-fit & Re-inlet as needed into the stock.
Then redrill the new pin hole thru the lug using the orig holes in the stock.

[bama]

I have looked at and restored a number of originals that had evidence of the fitting being peened to stretch the metal to fit the mortice. Many side plate were cross peened to stretch them so the bolts would work with the lock that was used. Most of the brass patch boxes on antiques that I have restored have had evidence of peening, many of the doors are peened to work harden the brass to make it stiffer. I guess the old masters were not as good as some on this board. Anyway the rest of us will just have to tighten up or we will never get a Niffty.

[Gaeckle]

The best way to fill gaps is to not make them.

Sometimes gap happens

[Waksupi]

There is an issue I don't think was addressed. Dealing with the gap between lock pan and barrel.
The bolster needs filed until there is a proper mating of surfaces. If you have a belt sander, it makes the job a lot easier. Either way, that gap has to go, and Acraglas won't cut it for the job. Double check that the front is fully inlet, that appears to be uneven.
Others are correct on butt plate fitting, definitely some work needs done. If you get it down to under 1/32", you can anneal the steel,  then use a light ball peen hammer to take it on down to the wood, then file smooth. This won't work well for the top  section on the BP, but works fine on the longer vertical areas.

[Terry Cheek]

Thank you everything is understood and appreciated.

Terry

[Jim Kibler]

There is an issue I don't think was addressed. Dealing with the gap between lock pan and barrel.
The bolster needs filed until there is a proper mating of surfaces. If you have a belt sander, it makes the job a lot easier. Either way, that gap has to go, and Acraglas won't cut it for the job. Double check that the front is fully inlet, that appears to be uneven.
Others are correct on butt plate fitting, definitely some work needs done. If you get it down to under 1/32", you can anneal the steel,  then use a light ball peen hammer to take it on down to the wood, then file smooth. This won't work well for the top  section on the BP, but works fine on the longer vertical areas.

I would advise against filing the bolster.  This is one of our kits and nothing needs done to the bolster.  I would also not suggest using a belt sander when this job needs done.  Without a lot of care, this is a quick way make a mess of things.  All that needs done on this gun is to find what is holding the lock from the barrel.  It's very close, so not much will be required.  One place to look, is to make sure the wood directly behind the barrel is at least as high as the barrel.  If not, the lock can be pulled crooked when tightening the one lock bolt.  Sorting out small issues like this work best if you go slow and think about things.

Jim

[Frozen Run]

The bolster tends not to get modified to mate up with the flat of the barrel, the lock plate orientation gets inlet so that the bolster comes in parallel to the mating flat. What this means on a swamped barrel is that the lock ends up canting inward slightly towards the front to match the barrel profile so that there are no gaps between the barrel and bolster.

     

[Terry Cheek]

Thank you Jim and frozen run. The lock didn’t look right to me being inexperienced I wanted to show and tell before moving on. I’ve taken a little break because of health issues and I’m using the time to think through and process the posts and comments.

Terry

[Mike Brooks]

Generally,  there should be no need for any of the Accra glass products when stocking up  muzzle loading rifle.

[kutter]

Regarding the fit of the pan/bolster to the bbl flat,
 I would remove the lock and
strip it of all the parts and then replace just the Plate only and see how it draws up to the bbl flat.

Don't always assume that your bbl flat is exactly flat & parallel with the bolster as well.
Bbl may be canted a bit.
Use some marking black on the surfaces to see where they may be in contact already.
Just because there is a slight gap at the top of the joint, doesn't mean that gap extends all the way down.
The two surfaces may be touching somewhere , just not at the top edge.



If it  does then draw up with the perfect fit you are striving for, then you know that one or more of the lock works parts is pushing the assembled lock away from the bbl when installed.

Re-installing the lock parts in steps can usually ID the culprit(s) that are causing the problem.

If with a completely stripped plate, it still doesn't draw up light tight to the bbl flat, then you can carefully work with inletting black to find the area(s) of concern.


Also try pushing the stripped lock plate into position in it's inlet with just a couple padded clamps.. don't use the side lock bolts to draw it up.
I like to use those inexpensive rubber padded jaw pistol grip clamps in stock work to seat parts into the wood for impressions while working.
Quick and easy to handle and use. A lot more pressure and precise if you use them right than a hammer wack on a hand held part causing a bounce and double impression many times..

See if the plate seats nice and tight by itself with clamping pressure alone.
If it does, then the side lock bolt(s) or maybe just one of them may be slightly bent, the threads cut off center a bit or even the D&T'd hole in the plate for the bolt is tapped less than 90* to the plate .


just some thoughts.

[Mike Brooks]

I have some experience putting Kibler kits together of late. There is "always" a little wood to take out under the lock bolster. I would blacken that area and use the lock screw to pull the lock in and see what's going on.

[Mike Brooks]

Also, the butt plates 'always" need more work fitting than just screwing them down. "Generally" they need to come forward by removing a little wood on the comb and a little where the uppermost screw pulls the buttplate in from the rear.