Author Topic: TRS cast springs  (Read 1279 times)

Offline kutter

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TRS cast springs
« on: May 01, 2022, 03:51:56 AM »

I'm just finishing up polishing out the cast springs supplied with a TRS kit. Queen Anne Musket.
The main spring and frizzen spring came out fine. I had to heat the springs up and open up the V shape so I could polish the inside of the arms. The main spring also needed the inside of the bend cleared of cast metal.
So both of those springs now need to be heated again and bent back to shape for use. Then hardened and drawn back.



The sear spring supplied was a complete loss.
It too had casting metal in the inside of the bend. I sawed most of that way to be able to spread the arms apart once heated up red.
But the very uneven thicknesses of the two arms left me with nothing to use as a real spring once I started shaping & polishing them out.
So I decided to heat it up red again and forge the thing out flat. Then use it as a pattern to make a new spring from scratch from a piece of 1095 stock.

I forged the screw socket loop on the end of the piece of stock by just hammering from the top downward and shaping it by forging at red heat.
The rest is files and polished to shape using the old spring pattern.
I left the 'new' spring attached to the piece of spring stock so it's easier to hold on to for filing, shaping, polishing and drilling the screw hole.
It's fitted to the plate now but still attached to the piece of spring stock.


Mainspring as provided


Frizzen Spring all polished up


The sear spring supplied was a complete loss.
It too had casting metal in the inside of the bend. I sawed most of that way to be able to spread the arms apart once heated up red.
But the very uneven thicknesses of the two arms left me with nothing to use as a real spring once I started polishing them out.
So I decided to heat it up red again and forge the thing out flat. Then use it as a pattern to make a new spring from scratch from a piece of 1095 stock.

You can see the sear spring 'as cast' supplied in this pic in the upper right portion of the pic.



These are of that suppled as cast spring opened up and forged flat after realizing it was a loss.
Plus the one I made from spring stock still attached to the main piece.




I'll have to do some searching on the HT of the cast springs,,never did any before.
The 1095 one shouldn't be any problem. I use a lead pot to draw temper w/a themometer to get the temp right.

I don't think I'll be searching out anymore 'cast' springs to work on in the future.
They may be just fine as far as strength and working life.
But for all the time I put into cleaning them up from their as-cast condition to get to the  straight, nicely tapered and polished condition I like them to be in,,,I could have just as well made them from scratch.
That would have been in less time and with a lot less work.

Offline Clark Badgett

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Re: TRS cast springs
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2022, 08:23:12 AM »
That frizzen spring sure is pretty.
Psalms 144

Offline smart dog

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Re: TRS cast springs
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2022, 01:26:09 PM »
Hi Kutter,
That has been my experience too.  I usually make the sear and mainsprings from scratch but buy the cast frizzen springs and spend the time to clean them up.

dave
"The main accomplishment of modern economics is to make astrology look good."

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: TRS cast springs
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2022, 03:38:24 PM »
I did NOT want my reputation as a lock MAKER as opposed to an assembler riding on some distant foundry whose business method was and IS,get it done and out the door.I well remember L.C.Rice telling me of a conversation with a foundry owner that told him "WE do production,not quality control."I still think the actual lock is the unseen or seldom seen mechanism on the back side of the lock plate.
I have used cast frizzen springs redone with my barnyard methods and nothing bad happened but a frizzen spring has a VERY limited
range of motion. Never even thought of a cast sear spring or a cast sear either.Casting is the only way a flintlock plate,cock and frizzen can be produced at an affordable price. Cast mainsprings were never,ever considered and working with these one of a kind kits and critical parts cast from "Unknownium"is not for me.
Bob Roller

Offline deepcreekdale

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Re: TRS cast springs
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2022, 07:39:39 PM »
I am surprised those castings got through. I have built dozens of TRS locks and never had castings that poor. I do agree the sear spring is easier to just make from spring stock though. I would have called Jane and see if they could be replaced but you did a great job on them.
”Far and away the best prize that life has to offer is the chance to work hard at work worth doing.” Theodore Roosevelt

Offline Scota4570

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Re: TRS cast springs
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2022, 09:30:56 PM »
Why is it that some of  foundries that make ML parts do such an awful job? 

I know it is possible to do a good job.  I know that when I did lost wax casting with it came out near perfect.  I did use plaster and a vacuum pump.  There was no porosity, or flash,  and a nice  finish.  Brass is not steel.  Ruger has no problem casting good steel parts.  Dozens of ML companies do a reasonable job.. 

When I see pictures as above I loose all temptations to mess around with such parts. 
« Last Edit: May 02, 2022, 09:42:59 PM by Scota4570 »

Offline rich pierce

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Re: TRS cast springs
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2022, 02:50:58 AM »
The parts sets from TRS vary. Here’s a good one. Dutch officers fusil lock.



Andover, Vermont

Offline alacran

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Re: TRS cast springs
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2022, 01:54:39 PM »
I've done two TRS locks. I had misgivings about their water quenching instructions. DeepcreekDale assured me it works. I have had no problem, including the sear spring for a Twigg officer pistol lock, which is long and slender.
Cast parts take patient filing and polishing, specially springs.
A man's rights rest in three boxes: the ballot box, the jury box, and the cartridge box.  Frederick Douglass

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: TRS cast springs
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2022, 09:01:56 PM »
Why is it that some of  foundries that make ML parts do such an awful job? 

I know it is possible to do a good job.  I know that when I did lost wax casting with it came out near perfect.  I did use plaster and a vacuum pump.  There was no porosity, or flash,  and a nice  finish.  Brass is not steel.  Ruger has no problem casting good steel parts.  Dozens of ML companies do a reasonable job.. 

When I see pictures as above I loose all temptations to mess around with such parts.

I never had any interest in such projects and using relics as masters for reproduction is not the best idea,
One reason so many components for muzzle loading guns is a perception that it must be cheap.
There are a lot of people that have no concept about the skill levels involved and no appreciation for the
finished item.Ruger's castings are captive to them and as I understand it,they do not outsource anything
and have total quality control over their production.Looking at these pictures I see nothing usable and can
see no way to make them so.Good luck with this project.
Bob Roller