Re bore 1841 Mississippi rifle

[Prospector8083]

  I have a Mississippi rifle made in 1850 that I want to make a shooter out of. It actually shoots decent with the original 54 cal bore. I want to re rifle it to 58 caliber and I have heard that this was done to some of them in military use.Could you recommend someone to do this procedure completely because I don't even have a way to get the breech plug out. I don't care if it changes the value,I just want to shoot it on blackpowder Sunday!

[Longknife]

Send a message to Rober Hoyt, he is a member here...LK

[Top Jaw]

Sounds like your already shooting it.  If your looking for more accuracy, you could have the bore lapped, or the original rifling freshened without an impact. But a complete rebore would in fact significantly decrease the value. 

[Wingshot]

The very first muzzleloader I ever fired was an original Mississippi rifle. I was 12 years old bumming around the rifle range while my dad was shooting Trap. The gentleman’s name was Bill Jackson, a high school teacher for the North Allegheny School District. He was wearing a grey Kepi and had a CS belt buckle. Funny how a flood of memories can come at the mere mention of a particular firearm. That was in 1972. Good luck with that shooter! (Bill was an active member of NSSA, now sadly departed).

[Clark Badgett]

Please do not rebore an original that still retains its original bore size.

[Dphariss]

Why would you want to mess up an original rifle?
Leave it alone.
Some of these, at least, were cut out to 58 by the gov’t so the 54 might be a rare survivor
If you must mess with the bore have someone lap it.
Given the stocking, barrel bands and a FS it might be shooting as well as it ever did.

[Prospector8083]

I am going to try to lap it again and see how it shoots,they are made to use without patches so there is metal that could be removed and use a patch with the ball. Is there someone on this forum who does this service? I have already lapped it once but I am far from an expert

[Clark Badgett]

I am going to try to lap it again and see how it shoots,they are made to use without patches so there is metal that could be removed and use a patch with the ball. Is there someone on this forum who does this service? I have already lapped it once but I am far from an expert

The Mississippi rifle was made to be used with a patched .530 RB.

[Daryl]

The paper ctgs. for the Mississippi rifle had a sewn lubricated cloth patched round ball in them, I think.

[Natureboy]

  The middle gun in this photo is an Eli Whitney Model 1841 that my great-grandfather carried in the war. It works fine, and I've shot it a lot in the past. I don't risk damaging it anymore, but I carried it in parades, demos, and numerous reenactment "fire fights" with the First Oregon Volunteer Artillery back in the '60s. It was built at the Whitney armory in 1853, and re-bored to .58 for Minie balls when the Army standardized calibers. It was fired so many times that the wood around the nipple was burned away by blow-by from the hammer. It's amazing and emotional to hold that history in my hands.

[Natureboy]

 Here's the lock of my Mississippi rifle which, like Wingshot, was my introduction to black powder shooting, an addiction which continues for the past 65 years.

[Craig Wilcox]

You've got to be careful on those "reenactments" to not let the barrel get too hot.

Back in 1961, I was a crew member on the USS Constellation, sister ship to the USS Constitution, "Old Ironsides".  She was berthed in Baltimore, and we were supposedly a "landing party", which participated in the first Battle of Bullrun - Manassas.  I was armed with an original 1861 Springfield .58 cal.

We were carefully checked for projectiles, and removed our ramrods.  Didn't want anything to go flying toward those Johnny Reb guys, nor did we want them to have anything fly towards us.

So, we finally got to make our "charge" towards those Rebels!  Our ammo was as usual, a cardboard tube filled with black powder, but a wad of paper instead of a Minnie ball.  Drill was simple, pour the powder down the barrel, put a cap on the nipple, and fire.  I got kind of carried away, and shot all 50 cartridges in about 5 minutes - resulting in a lot of scorching around the nipple, and a barrel that left a nasty 2nd degree burn on my hand.  Still have the scar after all those years.

I soon learned to fire at about 35-40 seconds between shots, allowing the barrel to not get quite as hot.  Lasted longer in subsequent battles around northern Virginia.

BTW - wasn't long before we retreated in disarray.  I then went over to the artillery, but found it hazardous as well.  The Army had supplied us with "artillery simulators", which whistled, then exploded with a loud bang! and a cloud of smoke.  The problem was, these conveniently fit down the muzzles of our cannons, and it wasn't long before both sides were launching those darn things.  A bit too realistic!

Was tons of fun for a 15-year old!

[Notchy Bob]

I would like to suggest that the OP consider "rebarreling" the rifle with a drop-in replacement made to duplicate the outside dimensions of the original, but in .58 caliber.  These are available from Whitacre's Machine Shop.  Whitacre barrels are match-grade, and very highly regarded.

There is no doubt that Robert Hoyt could rebore and rifle the original barrel to the customer's specifications, or he could line it, which would enable bringing it back to original specs.  He lined a M1842 pistol for me, with the liner bored to original specs, and except for the fact that the bore is mirror-bright, you would never know the liner was there.

However, if you just get a whole new barrel with sights better suited for shooting targets, you can leave the original barrel unmolested, shoot your rifle to your heart's content, and probably shoot more accurately with the better sights.  I have an original Mississippi in its original .54 caliber with the original open sights, and I can tell you whoever designed those sights did not have old men in mind!  In any event, it is a very simple matter to remove and replace the barrel, and if you get one from Mr. Whitacre, you can still use your old one for round balls.  Sort of like having two guns in one.

A lot of Mississippi rifles were taken back by the arsenals and rebored and rifled to accept the standard .58 caliber Minie bullets.  This was with three wide, shallow grooves that were slightly deeper at the breech than the muzzle to accommodate the hollow-based bullet.  Mr. Whitacre uses this same type of rifling in the barrels he makes.  The majority of these also had the "Kentucky" style original rear sight replaced with folding leaf rifle-musket sights.  The Whitacre barrels come  "in the white," so you would likely need to finish it yourself.  I understand the original barrels were actually painted with a brown lacquer rather than being browned in the customary way.

Notchy Bob

[ipman]

The Mississippi is one of my favorites. I have a reproduction in .54 and I've just finished making up a batch of cartridge to take shooting soon.

[Clark Badgett]

A lot of Mississippi rifles were taken back by the arsenals and rebored and rifled to accept the standard .58 caliber Minie bullets.  This was with three wide, shallow grooves that were slightly deeper at the breech than the muzzle to accommodate the hollow-based bullet.  Mr. Whitacre uses this same type of rifling in the barrels he makes.  The majority of these also had the "Kentucky" style original rear sight replaced with folding leaf rifle-musket sights.  The Whitacre barrels come  "in the white," so you would likely need to finish it yourself.  I understand the original barrels were actually painted with a brown lacquer rather than being browned in the customary way.

Notchy Bob

According to the ordinance manuals for that era, the barrels were chemically browned and then oiled with linseed oil. They were not lacquered.

[Notchy Bob]

A lot of Mississippi rifles were taken back by the arsenals and rebored and rifled to accept the standard .58 caliber Minie bullets.  This was with three wide, shallow grooves that were slightly deeper at the breech than the muzzle to accommodate the hollow-based bullet.  Mr. Whitacre uses this same type of rifling in the barrels he makes.  The majority of these also had the "Kentucky" style original rear sight replaced with folding leaf rifle-musket sights.  The Whitacre barrels come  "in the white," so you would likely need to finish it yourself.  I understand the original barrels were actually painted with a brown lacquer rather than being browned in the customary way.

Notchy Bob

According to the ordinance manuals for that era, the barrels were chemically browned and then oiled with linseed oil. They were not lacquered.

Clark, thank you for your comments.  I'm happy to take your word for it.  I do recall reading that bit about the lacquered barrels, but I'm unable to locate the source for that information so can't verify it. 

Thanks,

Notchy Bob

[Clark Badgett]

A lot of Mississippi rifles were taken back by the arsenals and rebored and rifled to accept the standard .58 caliber Minie bullets.  This was with three wide, shallow grooves that were slightly deeper at the breech than the muzzle to accommodate the hollow-based bullet.  Mr. Whitacre uses this same type of rifling in the barrels he makes.  The majority of these also had the "Kentucky" style original rear sight replaced with folding leaf rifle-musket sights.  The Whitacre barrels come  "in the white," so you would likely need to finish it yourself.  I understand the original barrels were actually painted with a brown lacquer rather than being browned in the customary way.

Notchy Bob

According to the ordinance manuals for that era, the barrels were chemically browned and then oiled with linseed oil. They were not lacquered.

Clark, thank you for your comments.  I'm happy to take your word for it.  I do recall reading that bit about the lacquered barrels, but I'm unable to locate the source for that information so can't verify it. 

Thanks,

Notchy Bob

It’s certainly not your fault. Many fine, older references make this claim and I suppose if one was looking at a nice specimen and saw a film of what looks like lacquer then they are going to make a guestimation that it was painted brown. Not everyone enjoys reading old manuals and noticing that rifle barrels were to be browned and then rubbed with oil, and many oils will polymerize over time. Unfortunately, old information becomes so ingrained that it takes a long time to get out of circulation.

[hanshi]

Reinforcing what the others have cautioned, do not re-bore that barrel.  It's an antique and a piece of history and should be kept as such.  Replicas are available in .58 if you absolutely need that caliber.  The 1841 was indeed designed to be fires with prb; and if yours shoots well just clean the bore and shoot it if you must.

I bought a Euroarms 1841 around 20 years ago from a company called "Jarnigans", IIRC.  It was a special order to get it in the original .54 but the cost was around 40% less than the .58 1841 offered by DGW.  Unfortunately I don't think they are still offered by that company.  But the rifle is fitted and finished as nicely as custom rifles.  Yes, it has taken deer and lots of targets but is heavy at 10.5 lbs.