Patchbox and cheek piece inlay install after finishing?

[HighUintas]

Would it be a big mistake to plan to install a patchbox.and cheek piece inlay after a rifle has stain and finish applied? These will be steel pieces and will be similar to Phillip Creamer's patchbox, cheek inlay and engraving.

I was considering doing this because making the patchbox and learning to engrave will take me quite awhile. And to be honest, they are very very daunting tasks to me.  On top of that, the funds aren't available for graver sharpening tools right now.

I have my rifle at the final shape state. All that's left is the rear sight, patchbox, inlay, and wood and metal finishing. It would be nice, if I could take a break and enjoy shooting the rifle with it finished and come back to the patchbox and inlay and engraving later, at a very very slow pace to make sure I get it right. But I realize that installing those on finished wood could make it harder.

My wife suggested I shoot it in the white, but I'm afraid of dinging up the wood and embedding grime into it when it's already final shape.

[Pete G.]

Yes, it would be a big mistake!

[Dphariss]

Everything needs to be done in the proper sequence. Stain and finish comes last.

[mikeyfirelock]

I’m not an engraver , but would it be feasible to make the patchbox now, install it, and then engrave  it at a future time ?  (I think you will find that making the patchbox is not as daunting a task as you expect.)

[HighUintas]

Ok. I do realize that it would require refinishing the wood around these items, but didn't know how hard it would be to get the finish to match up.

I will plan to install these items, finish it, then engrave them later. If possible, I'll remove them for engraving since they'll all be attached with screws.

[mikeyfirelock]

I think you will be able to remove and reinstall without problem ( qualifier:  make sure that all edges are beveled and not gummed up with excess finish.)

[Steeltrap]

I suppose it depends upon the intricacies of the patchbox. If it's a simple design with just carving out the inlet for the metal, then...other than the chance of marring the existing finish...I don't see how it would hurt.

When I browned the barrel on my .54 Cal I did so before I cut the sight dovetails. To some, this was backwards. But to me, I wanted the browning to be applied in "one swoop" so the finish would be uniform and I would not get browning solution "caught" in the dovetails and perhaps run down the side flats.

I browned the barrel, then using a few wraps of duct tape to protect the browning, I cut in the dovetails. The barrel finish is great...the dovetails are in and it all worked out well.

But that's just me.

[Eric Kettenburg]

It's very possible and it was surely done historically.  However, the caveat here is that you have to be careful and you have to know what you're doing because obviously it is much easier to install things like this and various furnishings on a rifle as it is being constructed.  I've had folks send shimmels back to me for all kinds of add-ons, though.  The biggest issues really are (1) realizing that when inletting, you need to get things practically perfect without the standard approach of just filing everyhting down at the same time, and (2) knowing how to match and blend finishes without simply refinishing the entire rifle.  Although, I suspect historically, the entiure piece was most likely refinished as it's not that much more work, and also, I doubt anyone historically was concerned wth such a piece looking like it was brand new and unused.  JMHO.

If you are building a piece that is not yet finished I think you;d be better off just doing it now before finishing, or if you're not yet confident, set it aside and start another one to be a plain shooter while you work up your skills.  Or just finish this one up as a plain shooter and figure on building another piece more elaborately as you progress.  Maybe Bob Lienemann will chime in with his rasp rifle that he's had and used for well over 20 years and still (I don;t think) has finished.  He's got some very good thoughts on this matter.

[Dphariss]

Ok. I do realize that it would require refinishing the wood around these items, but didn't know how hard it would be to get the finish to match up.

I will plan to install these items, finish it, then engrave them later. If possible, I'll remove them for engraving since they'll all be attached with screws.

It can be done with Ferric Nitrate if a Linseed oil finish is used. If you use some plastic/synthetic finish all bets are off. Mix some ferric nitrate with denatured alcohol and it will usually blend OK.
I dropped this pistol a couple of weeks ago and it needed an inlay to cover where it landed on the corner of a step. Then it did not go back together perfectly, of course it LOOKED OK till the glue set and I pulled off the surgical tubing, so it required some filing and sanding and more inlays than planned. But the color matches OK. AND its been a jinx in other ways as well so it is what it is.
Its a “problem child”.

[Dphariss]

In the 19th c a lot of parts like patchboxes and inlays came engraved and were then inlet, or just nailed on in some cases. I suspect these parts were available by at least the mid-1830s from Tryon. They likely were from Birmingham. Then there are guns like N. Hawks with almost everything nailed on. Some show engraving lines right through the nails and others show the round nails as part of the engraving design but they were obviously brought down the surface and polished in place. Then we see J. Armstrong’s with inlays obviously nailed on after the engraving and maybe even store bought. Nice crowned head nails.
Now if the part is SCREWED down then it can be removed after all finish is done. But I would carefully wax it with floor wax, let it dry completely before installing and finish. But if you get wax on the stock before staining you will have “issues”. If you do not use a release agent of some sort the part may get glued in by the finish and chip the wood on removal or be very had to remove.
Nailed on parts. I use a shop made version of the double headed scaffold nails of the past. I very small nails and silver solder a piece of brass tubing on maybe 3/8 long as a false head and leaving maybe 3/8” useable point, you don’t wan this londer than the silver, steel or brass used as the final nail. This allows nailing the part in place, checking the depth of the inlet etc. They removing it again. When the final nailing is done I use brass or silver nails. In the case of silver I make them from strips of thick silver that I hammer to a point to work harden them the use a chisel of inletting knife to raise teeth to lock them down when driven in. On a long N Hawk toe plate I used tiny brass wood screws, then when properly fit I did a light countersink tighted the screws and filed the heads off. With a proper size “nail set” its possible to leave them just a little high and then crown them carefully with the nail set. BUT EXPERIMENT first on scraps.
Nice 12” or so of settled snow virtually windless when it fell. Now 30-50 MPH winds and roads blocked, people stuck Most of my drive blows clear with this level of wind But there is a drift at the garage.  Life on the Eastern front of the Rockies North of the 45th parallel.

[mgbruch]

You'll save time and frustration; and possibly a botched job, if you make the parts and inlet them now, saving engraving for later.

Inletting a part into a finished gun will almost certainly require refinishing in the area of the inlet; unless you can do that without any blemishes at all around the part.  Refinishing may, or easily may not, match the rest of the gun.  If it doesn't you've got mismatched finishes on both sides of the buttstock.  Then folks on the forum will be responding as to the best way to fix that.

Building a Longrifle that looks, handles, and shoots like it should is a matter of proper planning and execution; and one is as important as the other.  With kits the planning, and most of the work, have been done for you; but there is still a proper sequence to follow for the execution of the remaining work.  Every step in the sequence has it's effect on the work that follows; and following sequence ensures that everything fits the way it should, looks the way it should, and functions the way it should.

You're nearing the end of your work, so you're past most of that.  But the rule applies until the end.  If you inlet them later, the outcome will vary.  Perhaps you will inlet them perfectly, with no blemishes at all.  Or you may end up refinishing the areas around the patch box and inlay, and get a perfect match.  Or you will take the entire rifle down to the white again to get an even finish.

[HighUintas]

Thank you all for all of those great points.

I have chosen to use stain and permalyn sealer for a finish. I thought that permalyn was likely a much more permanent sealer and finish than an oil varnish and that may prevent the possibility of being able to refinish it nicely after a patchbox install.

Anyhow, this being my first one, I don't think I have the skills to get this 0.055 steel batchbix bent perfectly and then inketted perfectly to avoid refinishing. I also don't have the skills yet to refinish an area and have it match.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

You appear to have set goals for yourself and the rifle, and you fear that proceeding as you have indicated, you will not achieve these goals.  You say you don't have the skill 'yet'.  How do you imagine you will gain these skills?  By wishing for it, and planning for it?  I suggest that the skills will come from having gone ahead and done the work.  If your patience doesn't allow you to get out and shoot the rifle before it is as complete as you want, then you have answered your own question.  All of us, especially those of us who started on this journey long before the internet, have built rifles that we would like to have made differently.  Dialogue here won't change the outcome but may steer you toward a satisfactory decision.  Knowing now what you do, go ahead and make the shot.  You might sink the ball, or you might scratch, but you will have increased your skill.