Forging bolt and screw heads

[Goo]

Any one willing to give up any ideas on this?   It is so difficult to find partially threaded bolts and machine screws I am wondering if anyone has tried ways of forming heads onto mild steel round stock?   I have an idea for making a forming die to drop precut lengths of round stock into and  ecxtra time hammering one end into a machine screw head.  Yes this might involve some extra time but most of use don`t use dozens of screws  making them 1/2 dozen at a time could stretch the monthly budget.  a   

[rich pierce]

It would be challenging making heads big enough for screws like sideplate lock screws. Back in the day these were forged from larger stock, tapered down and the head area left bigger with enough mass to forge wide and flat.

For internal lock screws I use screw blanks from Brownell’s. I anneal them for threading as they come partially hardened.

[Kevin Houlihan]

 Josh Wrightsman has a video on this exact subject - forging lock bolts.  His YouTube is called “Old Iron Cabin”

Good luck
Kevin

[smylee grouch]

Interesting video. Labor intensive when compared to buying them but more satisfying for do it your selfers and those looking for different sizes.

[Scota4570]

I turn what I want from leaded screw stock.   IT helps a lot to turn a step for the die to fit over, about the corresponding tap drill size.  When I try to start a die on a shaft that is full thread diameter it often goes badly.  On larger screws I start a thread wit the lathe then refine it with a die. 

Track sells unthreaded screw blanks.

Since I do not have a slotting file all my screw heads have a hacksaw blade width slot. 

[Birddog6]

Sometimes I just cut a dia head off  & silver solder it to the shaft I want.  Or take a 10-32 crew & turn it down & re-thread it to a 6-32.  I made some last week from Brownells blanks, just to get a little lathe set up.  Then I took a couple 8-32 & 10-32 & turned them down. Then turned a Rod to a 10-32 & made the head & all, then threaded.   TIME Consuming for me. 
I made a arbor to hold my cutting die, then drilled out the shaft so a screw can go back in the shaft.  No it is not pretty like Dave makes, but it worked out well.  Takes me 15 seconds to thread a screw, and about .15 seconds to get it chucked.
I was gonna post a video of it threadiing one, but am not computer savvy & if I understood it right, have to put it on a  server & link it & all that stuff & I would just screw it up.  Here is a before & after anyway.

[bob in the woods]

H House shows how he makes them in one of his videos.  Round head bolts, reworked into lock /side plate screws.  It's not difficult.

[Gaeckle]

Any one willing to give up any ideas on this?   It is so difficult to find partially threaded bolts and machine screws I am wondering if anyone has tried ways of forming heads onto mild steel round stock?   I have an idea for making a forming die to drop precut lengths of round stock into and  ecxtra time hammering one end into a machine screw head.  Yes this might involve some extra time but most of use don`t use dozens of screws  making them 1/2 dozen at a time could stretch the monthly budget.  a   

Call the Log Cabin Shop, they recently took in a bunch of lock bolt blanks

[JTR]

  When I need side plate lock screws, I like to start with a carriage bolt. Get one large enough so you can grind off the square shank and all the threads. Grind the length to the diameter you need, then thread just the end to the lock plate thread size. Cut a slot in the head and Presto, a new lock bolt.

For the old guns I like to work on, I use old wagon bolts made of iron, but for a modern rifle steel bolts would work well.
John

[kutter]

I make most of the screws I need for a project.
Smaller ones I make the entire piece on the lathe. Small headed #6, & #8 screws ect.
I use a Coarse machine thread on the screws that I use for 'wood screws' They hold extremely well in hard wood.

Larger headed ones I usually make 2 piece. One smaller dia piece of round stock for shank. A larger dia piece for the head.
I face off the smalled dia first. Remove it and place the larger dia in the chuck and face it off. Then with either a drill or an endmill cut a blind hole just deep enough to accept the smaller dia piece.

I leave the larger piece right there and put the smaller dia in a chuck in the tail stock.
Run it into the larger piece with some flux on the tip and Hard solder the two together in the lathe so they are straight.

Hacksaw off the 'head' and I have a bolt ready to cut to length and thread.
Turn it around in the headstock and trim & shape up the bolt head to your liking. Gets rid of any soldering flux & solder overflow at the same time.

I use a jewelers saw w/ .020-.025 width blade for the screwdriver slot.
You can bevel the slot slightly on each side at the surface if you want them a little wider looking.
The beveled slot will resist the screwdriver twisting damage too as the actual driver blade that fits will be thinner to fit the real .025 slot down in.

I did at one time out of frustration of needing standard wood screws with narrow driver slots in them,,,,I took a steel plate and made a V counter sink in the plate. But not as deep so as to completely allow
 the OTC steel hardware store screws I had with the very wide drive slots to drop in level with the surface.

Then simply heating the screw head red and dropping the screw into the plate and a carefully centered wack with a flat punch the size of the screw head, it will forge the screw down into the smaller dia countersink and at the same time close up the wide driver slot.

The slightly smaller in dia head now needed to be trimmed and a new slot cut. I did the first in my lathe with a dedicated tool set up with the right angle.
Sometimes a remnant of the old slot would be hiding at the bottom of the new thinner slot when you recut it. But that didn't really bother anything and it doesn't show at all.

Lots of work just to get decent looking screws for butt plates that I needed at the time. But it worked.
Now I just make the screws as described above w/a coarse machine thread and a head on them of what ever style I need.

[Eric Kettenburg]

For larger head sizes i.e. lock bolts, I've always simply free formed them out of very low carbon rod @ 1/4".  Heat up one end, clamp it quickly in a vice and then just start *carefully* tapping round until it cools (actually keep going as it cools, as there is some cold forging inherent in this method too).  Repeat a few times.  Then you can draw out the shank to a taper and file it out, and then thread.  Just free file clean up the head, or you can use a lathe, or a "Hershel lathe" i.e. clamped drill, or whatever.  Many, many lock bolts that I've seen have a very slightly 'mushroomed' or concave underside to the heads (one reason so many easily cut into the brass side plates) which tends to my mind to bear out the manner I just noted.

Also most larger bolts like this on American guns are very soft and mushy with lots of slag or seams - it does not appear to me anyway that they were ever case hardened and they sure were not made of better quality iron.  Probably why so many are just decorative at this point and pretty much stripped, or just baaaaaaaaaaaaaaarely grabbing.

[JTR]

Probably why so many are just decorative at this point and pretty much stripped, or just baaaaaaaaaaaaaaarely grabbing.

Like tighten it up,,, tighten it a bit more, then a bit,,, boing, pops loose again.... ;-)

[Bob Roller]

With a small lathe like my Atlas 618 none of these screws are a problem.
I used 5/32" 12L14 for internal lock screws and the adjustment screws on
triggers.I used the 4x 40 thread and sometimes the 4x48.The cross screws
that prevent the lock from falling off the rifle I make from 3/8" diameter and
use the 8x32 and sometimes 6x32.Once in a while I use 5/16 diameter 12L14
I made some a while back for a poster on this forum and got $6 each for them
and they were all 8x32's.This man was the only one that knew the work involved
in these screws PLUS the cost of the material and the willingness and skill of the
machinist to make a short run of anything.I hand slotted the heads and always
have on all screws I make. The mainspring  screws on my triggers are 8x32 on
the Hawken and 6x40 on the smaller ones with a 5/16" head.
Bob Roller

[Bob Roller]

With a small lathe like my Atlas 618 none of these screws are a problem.
I used 5/32" 12L14 for internal lock screws and the adjustment screws on
triggers.I used the 4x 40 thread and sometimes the 4x48.The cross screws
that prevent the lock from falling off the rifle I make from 3/8" diameter and
use the 8x32 and sometimes 6x32.Once in a while I use 5/16 diameter 12L14
I made some a while back for a poster on this forum and got $6 each for them
and they were all 8x32's.This man was the only one that knew the work involved
in these screws PLUS the cost of the material and the willingness and skill of the
machinist to make a short run of anything.I hand slotted the heads and always
have on all screws I make. The mainspring  screws on my triggers are 8x32 on
the Hawken and 6x40 on the smaller ones with a 5/16" head
I did a time study that lasted about 10 minutes on making an 8x32 cross screw as
seen on muzzleloaders and it took about 9 minutes including the slotting.
The material was 3/8" 12L14 and the lathe did the work other than the slot.
Bob Roller

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Wind it in 'til it goes soft, then back it off 1/4 turn.  I have a big lathe, ie:  10" swing, 48" bed, 1 9/16" hole through the headstock, and I've made a lot of screws with it.  For small screws, I have a Jacob's zero chuck with a mandrel that I clamp in the headstock.  I run the speed up high, use a sharp tool, and very carefully cut away.  I've made screws as fine as 0 x 80 when there was a need for scale screws on my 1/4 scale Albatross DVa.  For my gun screws, I like to case harden the screw, so a one piece screw is pretty much mandatory.  I turn a lot of screws from nail stock.
For threading screws, I use my headstock to hold the head of the screw, first installing the threaded end in the tail stock chuck, and then sliding it up to the open headstock, then tightening the jaws onto the head.  Then I release the tailstock chuck from the shank of the screw, and open up the tailstock chuck jaws enough to form a flat area to support the threading die which is secured in it's stock.  The tailstock chuck is merely a solid flat area square with the world to support the die's face.  I take the belt pressure off the headstock so the chuck runs freely by hand.  I bring the die up to the end of the shank and lock the tailstock down.  Then, turning the headstock by hand, and using the advance handle of the tailstock, I introduce the end of the shank into the die. When I have about two threads cut, I remove the tailstock and continue turning the headstock by hand until I have a threaded journal the length I require.
A photo series would have described this better, but perhaps this will make sense to someone.

[Bob Roller]

The screw I made was started from 3'8"12L14 chucked in a Jacobs headstock/spindle chuck and turned to .156x1/5/8"long
and threaded with a die in a holder that can turn free on a shaft.The unthreaded screw is turning and the die is started on the shank and threaded under power and I hold the die holder and release it when the threads are far enough to be useful and then the spindle is reversed and the die backs off.The lathe is a little one,an Atlas 618 new in 1964 and modified for screws by replacing the cross slide with a longer one I made and two tool holders that can be rotated to any angle needed.The back side
holder has a parting tool that slices the screw off fast and then it's ready to finish the head.
The ultra easy to machine of 12L14 makes this an easy job.
Bob Roller

[Dphariss]

Any one willing to give up any ideas on this?   It is so difficult to find partially threaded bolts and machine screws I am wondering if anyone has tried ways of forming heads onto mild steel round stock?   I have an idea for making a forming die to drop precut lengths of round stock into and  ecxtra time hammering one end into a machine screw head.  Yes this might involve some extra time but most of use don`t use dozens of screws  making them 1/2 dozen at a time could stretch the monthly budget.  a   

Its a PITA and you can BUY them from suppliers.

[Dphariss]

Wind it in 'til it goes soft, then back it off 1/4 turn.  I have a big lathe, ie:  10" swing, 48" bed, 1 9/16" hole through the headstock, and I've made a lot of screws with it.  For small screws, I have a Jacob's zero chuck with a mandrel that I clamp in the headstock.  I run the speed up high, use a sharp tool, and very carefully cut away.  I've made screws as fine as 0 x 80 when there was a need for scale screws on my 1/4 scale Albatross DVa.  For my gun screws, I like to case harden the screw, so a one piece screw is pretty much mandatory.  I turn a lot of screws from nail stock.
For threading screws, I use my headstock to hold the head of the screw, first installing the threaded end in the tail stock chuck, and then sliding it up to the open headstock, then tightening the jaws onto the head.  Then I release the tailstock chuck from the shank of the screw, and open up the tailstock chuck jaws enough to form a flat area to support the threading die which is secured in it's stock.  The tailstock chuck is merely a solid flat area square with the world to support the die's face.  I take the belt pressure off the headstock so the chuck runs freely by hand.  I bring the die up to the end of the shank and lock the tailstock down.  Then, turning the headstock by hand, and using the advance handle of the tailstock, I introduce the end of the shank into the die. When I have about two threads cut, I remove the tailstock and continue turning the headstock by hand until I have a threaded journal the length I require.
A photo series would have described this better, but perhaps this will make sense to someone.

If you have lathe, its like Taylor says. I have collets that let me protrude the shank out of the collet and thread as described here. I got lucky when I got my current lathe. It came with a collet chuck and collets in 1/32” intervals from over 1 1/16 or 1 1/8 down to probably 1/16” (would have to go look). I almost never use the 3 or 4 jaw.